Pirelli's 2012 PZero tyres

[MIKEY_!]

A tire war is not what they need now. All this talk of cost cutting would look a little silly.

[flynfrog]

A tire war is not what they need now. All this talk of cost cutting would look a little silly.

the cost cutting is just what you said talk. They should either call it a spec series and go the indy route or bring back in season testing real race engines ect.

[ell66]

Blown Diffusers will bring as much as 3 seconds off lap times at some tracks with some cars going by the 2011 cars. About 40% of this time will be clawed back thru the closed season, if not already done.

As current levels of downforce with the EBD now exceed in many cased downforce created by the DDDs.

You serious with these two statements?? Not a chance that the EBD offers 3 seconds, thats ridiculous to even say that....and im pretty sure the cars are still down on downforce compared to last year, infact im certain.

[MIKEY_!]

I agree, they are trying to be seen to do something rather than actually doing it. Cause of that position they can't allow a tire war.

[ringo]

Anyway I liked the 'cliff', I think the stuff about the tires being rubbish was uncalled for since they were supposed to be faster wearing. But they do need to fix the marbles problem.
I really hope they do not make all the compounds more durable for next year, those tires were one of the best bits about this year once it became clear vettel would run away with the championship.

+1 I could not agree more

You will never see a "cliff" again, even if pirelli make the tyre with that behavior.
The teams will simply study it and pit before it happens.
So you basically get what we see now, run and care for the tyre until you have to come in. Having a cliff doesn't really do anything for the racing but make the drivers hold back.
The tyre simply needs to be "tougher". Not harder but tougher. It needs to have the grip while being able to be pushed and heated up without falling apart.

Racing will be better if the drivers can do 60 qualifying laps without holding back.

The tyre can wear fast, no problem, but when it degrades non linearly, and it breaks up under hard braking or acceleration, then it spoils every aspect of the spectacle.
The tyre should be able to simply lose a couple tenths a lap without having to go over a cliff. And it should be able to be pushed hard while not going to point of no return.
The rate of wear needs to be sensible enough that a car can finish a race on one tyre if they chose, but it wouldn't make sense because of how much slower it gets linearly over the race distance.

[raymondu999]

2. The car may be able to drift a bit more without loosing too much tire wear.
3. Car would understeer

Huh?

Drifting and understeer are rather mutually exclusive.

Blown Diffusers will bring as much as 3 seconds off lap times at some tracks with some cars going by the 2011 cars. About 40% of this time will be clawed back thru the closed season, if not already done.

As current levels of downforce with the EBD now exceed in many cased downforce created by the DDDs.

You serious with these two statements?? Not a chance that the EBD offers 3 seconds, thats ridiculous to even say that....and im pretty sure the cars are still down on downforce compared to last year, infact im certain.

Agreed - The cars are only matching (at most circuits) the lap time of last year, and that's with DRS and KERS. However the Pirelli tyres blow the argument out of the water as we don't know how much grip they provide compared to the 2010 tyres (making a like-for-like aero comparison out of the question)

[Earnard Beccelstone]

I'm hoping against hope that Webber likes the construction of the newer Pirelli's, otherwise I fear that 2012 will turn into a Vettel vs the rest season, much like this year.

If the heat profile of the tyres becomes a little more stable/predictable, particularly on the harder compounds, I can see Ferrari and Mercedes gaining somewhat. Ferrari seemed reasonably competitive on the softer compounds at most races, but all at sea with the harder compounds.

If the tyres are made more durable, I can also see the midfield battle tightening up even further. Teams like Sauber and Force India, that may be less harsh on their tyres (whether through car or driver dynamics), will be able to run more aggressive/experimental strategies like in 2010, which may give them some solid top finished in the top 6 or 8, with attrition in the top 3/4 teams.

[raymondu999]

From Paul Hembery on Twitter, talking on 2012 tyres:

Balance will change, increase in grip for rear higher than for front. Will need aero bal and also camber changes.

And on the changes for the rear (vs the front):

Grip, move toward softer, better blister resistance. Will explain all in Feb 12

[Javert]

In an interview made by Gazzetta, Hembery said that
- the gap between compounds will be of 8 tenths instead of 1.2 seconds
- the hard tyre of next year will be softer than the medium tyre of this year
- the rear tires will have a large shoulder so the rear suspension has to be designed to have
more camber
- they want clearly to make again 3 pit stops in a race instead of 2
- the supersoft compound will remain the same
- they were substantially happy with the soft compound they tested in Abu Dhabi, and in Interlagos they will test an hard compound, which has been tested by Di Grassi in the old Toyota ...

Softer softer compounds, I wonder if they have clear the loss of downforce that there'll be next year

[kalinka]

- the rear tires will have a large shoulder so the rear suspension has to be designed to havemore camber

Maybe it's not a best palce to ask, but I can't figure out what's the connection between tyre shoulder size and camber settings. Why larger shoulder requires different camber setting? Just curious.

[PhillipM]

I'd imagine part of the changes to the shoulder's carcass area is simply because they don't have to be made to withstand the heat from the EBD's any more - the shoulders were a pretty stiff construction when you look at the footage from punctured tyres.

[Javert]

I imagine they want to keep lap times ...
With a tyre that let you to use a larger camber, you can gain on the straights what you lose on corners due to the less downforce

The concern (for me) is if the downforce level will be enough to make softer tires work well

[raymondu999]

Eh? More camber would let them go through corners faster rather than on straights no? If anything more rear camber would decrease traction, and more camber on either axle would increase braking distances.

Also I'd imagine softer tyres would generally require less downforce to activate; as they heat up easier (not requiring downforce to bring the tyres on). No?

[Javert]

Eh? More camber would let them go through corners faster rather than on straights no? If anything more rear camber would decrease traction, and more camber on either axle would increase braking distances.

Also I'd imagine softer tyres would generally require less downforce to activate; as they heat up easier (not requiring downforce to bring the tyres on). No?

This year Monza qualifiers have been really slow considering DRS and kers, with a limited camber setting ... A physical reasoning, which I'm not sure is correct, say that with a greater camber you have less contact with road and less resistance.
Also, I know I can't take CM F1 as a benchmark but my Monza lap times suddenly decreases with a greater camber

My osservation was not on grip levels, but if they will have enough life.

[raymondu999]

A physical reasoning, which I'm not sure is correct, say that with a greater camber you have less contact with road and less resistance.

There was a thread on this a while back and I can't remember the answer right now, but someone offered that explanation so I'll go with that....

Also, I know I can't take CM F1 as a benchmark but my Monza lap times suddenly decreases with a greater camber

Which again could be explained by more speed carried through corners

My osservation was not on grip levels, but if they will have enough life.

I'll assume that you meant observations rather than osservations

But I think that's an interesting one. Generally you'd think more downforce is less tyre wear due to less slip/slide, less locking, less wheelspin. But if you have more tyre grip anyways, would that not counter (a bit) the loss in downforce, for this aspect of tyre management? Also I think the tyres this year tend to get overworked with more downforce - the races where we've seen tyres getting used up more, and with more aggressive strategies with more stops, have been those with violent corners. Less downforce could mean less pace through fast sweepers, and less degradation.