Which year had most downforce?

[HampusA]

740-760hp is number i´ve been hearing and reading about.
Engines in 2004 was probably around 940-950bhp+. Especially at Monza.

[ajdavison2]

Taking into account the power:weight ratio, that is a huge difference

[PlatinumZealot]

if KERS (80hp) for only 6 seconds duration is worth 0.5 seconds a lap you can imagine 200hp more!

[matt21]

I think Barcelona is one of the most aero dependant tracks.

I listed the average lap time of the years 04,08 and 10.

2004 Michael Schumacher 1:19.6
2008 Kimi Räikkönen 1:29.4
2010 Mark Webber 1:27.1

The fastet average was set in 2006:
Fernando Alonso 1:18.5

[Pierce89]

if KERS (80hp) for only 6 seconds duration is worth 0.5 seconds a lap you can imagine 200hp more!

yeah that's why they could carry more wing. When the v8's came in the development was to reduce drag to increase efficiency as much as trying to find downforce.

[Byronrhys]

I think Barcelona is one of the most aero dependant tracks.

I listed the average lap time of the years 04,08 and 10.

2004 Michael Schumacher 1:19.6
2008 Kimi Räikkönen 1:29.4
2010 Mark Webber 1:27.1

The fastet average was set in 2006:
Fernando Alonso 1:18.5

The chicane offsets your numbers, the track can't really help anymore.

[HampusA]

Hungary might be a better option,

[gold333]

I would love to see a graph showing lateral grip levels from say 1980 to now. The graph would presumably be heavily biased towards downforce but it would be awesome to see exactly what was lost/gained due to changes we know happened.

I.e. Banning of the skirts in early 80's. Banning the wide "white label" Goodyear tires in 1993. Then the massive massive change to the cars in 1994-1995 where they added the stepped bottom (which they still use now) that was said to eliminate 30% of lateral grip (due to downforce), the halfscale wings (in height) that started in 1995. Only in 2009 did the wings get back to ~1m in height but this time they were about half as narrow as back in the day. Then the grooved tires of 1998, also killed grip massively.

Then I'd say the removal of the winglets in 2009 and the engine formula.

It would be awesome to see a graph of lateral grip (possibly speed) around an unchanged, unaccelerating, corner throughout all the years (it would have to be a corner from either:

Montreal, Silverstone, (Monaco), Hungaroring, Spa, Monza, Suzuka or Interlagos.

THose are the oldest circuits still in use, there must be a corner that has remained (the least) unchanged throughout the decades in one of them.

[Lycoming]

Im doubtful that 04 had more downforce. Looking at the onboards, they seem less grippy, the drivers are constantly correcting them mid corner, something that seems to happen quite a bit less today.

[mx_tifoso]

Well they did have plenty more power, even if slightly more downforce than now. And along with that they had grooved tires with similar dimensions, thus a smaller contact patch in general.

[timbo]

That is also true, with the barn-door wings they ran, but the stories of drivers blacking-out with the venturi-cars?

Oh, when I look at the photo of Alan jones in 1980 I just can't believe it

[Santozini]

Hi guys,

I'm digging up this old thread so we can include this new generation of cars. Where do the 2017 cars sit overall? How do they compare with the RB6/other huge DF cars?

[jjn9128]

Hi guys,

I'm digging up this old thread so we can include this new generation of cars. Where do the 2017 cars sit overall? How do they compare with the RB6/other huge DF cars?

I'll jump in on this even though I've not read the rest of the thread.

These are two graphs I made for something I'm working on. The first graph is a comparison of drag (x axis) and downforce (y axis) for cars I've managed to find some data on, the size of the bubbles is the L:D ratio. I've estimated the 2017 car from a combination of a back of an envelope calculation and some word of mouth. Downforce and drag might be a bit higher than I've estimated, but I suggest the 2017 cars compare favorably to the underbody tunnel Champ cars in the top right, but with much less drag; and overall the forces are similar to the closed wheel/cockpit Jaguar XJR-12. It's difficult to say how they compare to the RB6 but it's about 11% more downforce than a back of the grid car from 2010 (the Lotus T127).


Another way to look at is the second graph which shows the effect the ever increasing weight of the cars around Barcelona compared to 2007, so if the cars were identical except for the weight the laptimes would have been ~4sec slower this year than a decade ago when actually they were about a second and a half faster. That gain could be made through either a 50% increase of downforce, a 55% reduction of drag, a 30% increase of engine power or a 13% increase of tyre grip. The improved laptime will come from a combination of these four factors, with the hybrid power units producing a higher peak power with more torque, big wide slicks, and bigger floors/wings.