Toe out for turn in

[Jersey Tom]

Within a system, sure.. if you control force then slip angle is an output which will be contingent on the full set of tire states which include load.

However, the point still is that the definition "is what it is" and slip angle and load are two independent quantities used to define a state.

In any event, I thought we had pretty clearly answered the question some time ago. I'll be honest, I haven't followed what's really been said over the past several posts.

And yes, strad. Difference between orientation (how you point an object) vs the direction of travel (where it goes). However, sideslip doesn't have a preference for what medium you're working through.. be it driving across the ground or flying through the air.

[GSpeedR]

Within a system, sure.. if you control force then slip angle is an output which will be contingent on the full set of tire states which include load.

My point is all systems control force, whether a tire tester or a full vehicle.

However, the point still is that the definition "is what it is" and slip angle and load are two independent quantities used to define a state.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm pointing out to the general audience that it may be advantageous to look at tires with a different perspective than what you'll find in RCVD or Pacejka. An engineer must understand the tire model before they can do that.

[EAKMotorsports]

How about the F1 TOE.

[Jersey Tom]

How about the F1 TOE.

Yes.

[EAKMotorsports]

They uses negative or positive on the front and the rear ?

[raymondu999]

They uses negative or positive on the front and the rear ?

Negative. A bit more negative in the front; a bit less in the rear.

[olefud]

I'm wondering what the definition of "slip angle" might be. Often the state of a tire running at a slip angle is distinguished from one sliding or washing.
The former involves the elastomeric deformation of the tire but little actual relative movement between the tire and the track at the contact patch. The latter involves the loss of static friction and transition to lower grip sliding friction. I can't defend this definition, but others seem to subscibe to it.

Or is "slip angle" just difference between the direction the wheel points and the direction it travels?

[Jersey Tom]

Or is "slip angle" just difference between the direction the wheel points and the direction it travels?

That is literally all it is. Nothing to do with linear range versus sliding, tire deflection, or anything. Purely a comparison of rim orientation to direction of travel.