Front Wing F-Duct

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Holm86
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

Postby Holm86 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:36 pm

Mercedes had a passive F-duct rear wing last year before the could make it active.


Perhaps this extra intake on top of the W02's nose has something to do with this??

Holm86
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

Postby Holm86 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:52 pm

But in the article form auto motor und sport it says that the hole usualy is glued shut.

But your right it could be a possibility.

volarchico
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby volarchico » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:27 pm

Don't really believe it. They have great freedom on the front wing. Why rely on a duct (for stall OR for blowing) when you can just design a different profile and get the same results.

beelsebob
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby beelsebob » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:31 pm

volarchico wrote:Don't really believe it. They have great freedom on the front wing. Why rely on a duct (for stall OR for blowing) when you can just design a different profile and get the same results.

Because this takes airflow from somewhere where it does nothing much useful, and puts it somewhere where it does do something useful.

shelly
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby shelly » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:43 pm

Also the duct gives you the possibility of having a switch between two different configurations - ideally high downforce setup and low drag setup. It expands your performance envelope.
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volarchico
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby volarchico » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:46 pm

Ok, interesting. Maybe F-duct is just not a good description since a driver-controlled fluidic switch is still banned by the current rules. And I guess the "no slotted profile" rule only applies to the rear wing?

EDIT: Nevermind, I realized my mistake. You can have a fluidic switch without any driver control!

shelly
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby shelly » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:51 pm

The interesting part of thsi is also that having separate piping for left and right side, it can e tuned to produce ncie effects with rspect to yaw.
For example: low drag when the inputs from the two sides is the same (straightline), high downforce when the input from the two sides is different (yaw-cornering)
twitter: @armchair_aero

volarchico
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby volarchico » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:00 pm

I still think the concept of yaw-cornering is a misconception. The relative velocity of air 50 mm on either side of the centerline is not going to be that different.

shelly
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby shelly » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:05 pm

Agrre that to emphasize yaw effect the two inlets should be apart; but the fact that even if they are close, one shades the other could be enough.
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volarchico
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Front Wing F-Duct

Postby volarchico » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:59 pm

I thought we need a place to discuss the function and merits of the proposed Mercedes front wing F-duct that is being tested as per Lorenzo's post.

Will this be similar to the super-circulation thread with an attempt to increase downforce or more like the old rear-wing F-duct used as drag reduction?

How will it be switched on/off? Or will it?

Will any other teams copy the idea?

Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:And according to AMUS, Mercedes is developing an F duct for next year


http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 51930.html

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Ferraripilot
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

Postby Ferraripilot » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:25 pm

The more I think about this, the more I can see MB having a 2012 spec lower front nose but with a substantially larger hole in the nose with of course shorter verticle wing mounts, but perhaps straked back (W02 has them forward) in the interested of not only gathering as much CFM as possible but also gathering as much volume and velocity (hence straking backwards) as possible.

Ferraripilot
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Re: Mercedes MGP W03

Postby Ferraripilot » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:59 pm

It looks as if the two oval parts mounted inboard and behind a pair of the duct slots is there to flow air below the car thus further aiding the diffuser?

marekk
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Re: Front Wing F-Duct

Postby marekk » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:00 pm

To be honest, i don't see any reason for air to go this route. Pressure is about the same at inlet and outlet IMO.

volarchico
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Re: Front Wing F-Duct

Postby volarchico » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:33 pm

I'm very skeptical too and don't see the benefit...but sometimes my instinct is proven wrong and I learn something new. Interested in seeing what the other technically-minded people here think as well!

ESPImperium
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Re: Front Wing F-Duct

Postby ESPImperium » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:27 pm

Its to make sure the air isnt as turbulent at a low level and provide more air to the diffuser at a higher speed thus giving more downforce seemingly.

Could this be combined with the Red Bull Flexi wing for alot more downforce???




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