Wheel Slip & Ground Sensors

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hardingfv32
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by hardingfv32 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:44 am

bhallg2k wrote:You might be able to find some information here ( http://www.optimess.cn/?lan=1 ). That's the company who makes the sensors.
I was there, but everything seems mounted outside the wheels. This F1 pod must just be the laser with other instruments, accelerometer,etc., actually in the hubs and/or wheels.

Brian

bhall
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by bhall » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:49 am

Somewhere on this site - god knows where, though - there's a picture of an Optimess control box mounted on the front bulkhead, underneath the master cylinders, of some car. If you can find it, you might be able to get a model number and be able to find the specifics you seek.

Or you can ask JerseyTom.

Squall
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Squall » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:21 am

How they reveal the wheel-slip from chassis movement relative to the ground?
Initially i thought it measures wheel slip with centripetal acceleration (accelerometer) and steering angle,and then it is possibile to detect wheel slip.
Correct me if i am wrong.
hardingfv32 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:You'll see them on most cars in testing and on Fridays during race weekends.
Is a laser measuring the chassis movement relative to the ground?

Brian

Pierce89
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Pierce89 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:18 pm

Squall wrote:How they reveal the wheel-slip from chassis movement relative to the ground?
Initially i thought it measures wheel slip with centripetal acceleration (accelerometer) and steering angle,and then it is possibile to detect wheel slip.
Correct me if i am wrong.
hardingfv32 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:You'll see them on most cars in testing and on Fridays during race weekends.
Is a laser measuring the chassis movement relative to the ground?

Brian
movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info
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Squall
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Squall » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info
So, the laser instantly traces the trajectory of the car on the track?
But i have no idea how do this
Is possible that they use this type of laser?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_accelerometer
Last edited by Squall on Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hollus
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by hollus » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Does it work the same way an optical mouse does?
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Jersey Tom
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Jersey Tom » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:02 pm

Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info
Well, not quite. But close.

In any event, for those curious about optical sensors... feel free to read up on them.
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Squall
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Squall » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:00 pm

Jersey Tom wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info
Well, not quite. But close.

In any event, for those curious about optical sensors... feel free to read up on them.
Very interesting, thank you!
Do you know how (the physical principle) a laser can measure speed?

raymondu999
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by raymondu999 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:15 pm

I would think it can sort of track how much it has moved - then divide that by time. I don't see how a laser could measure speed per se - except if you're talking of something like a speed gun
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Gridlock
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Gridlock » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:54 pm

You can also use lasers for non-intrusive airflow measurement, ie a virtual pitot tube but much more advanced. Wind turbines and FADEC flight systems (fly by wire) as well as drones use them.
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Jersey Tom
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by Jersey Tom » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:13 pm

Squall wrote:Very interesting, thank you!
Do you know how (the physical principle) a laser can measure speed?
They do not use lasers. It is an optical velocity sensor.
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italian
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by italian » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:51 pm

Squall wrote:
Jersey Tom wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info
Well, not quite. But close.

In any event, for those curious about optical sensors... feel free to read up on them.
Very interesting, thank you!
Do you know how (the physical principle) a laser can measure speed?
Pitot Tube is used for measuring speed in F1.
A laser can measure speed with two different methods:
1) The instrument shoot a "ray" to an object and it analyzes the frequency of the ray that "returns" to the instrument. It uses Doppler Effect: the frequency of the ray that returns changes depending of the speed of the object.
2) The instrument measures how long a ray shot to an object does take to "return" to the instrument. It uses the kinematics formula of uniform motion: d=c*t
c= speed of light
t= time for the "returning" of the ray
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raymondu999
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by raymondu999 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:12 pm

italian wrote:A laser can measure speed with two different methods:
1) The instrument shoot a "ray" to an object and it analyzes the frequency of the ray that "returns" to the instrument. It uses Doppler Effect: the frequency of the ray that returns changes depending of the speed of the object.
2) The instrument measures how long a ray shot to an object does take to "return" to the instrument. It uses the kinematics formula of uniform motion: d=c*t
c= speed of light
t= time for the "returning" of the ray
Where would the ray shoot? If it were measuring time to return that would probably be a ride height sensor more than anything.

If you were to create a "speed gun" using doppler; where would you shoot? You can't shoot front/rear/sides because the walls etc would change.
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italian
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by italian » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:21 pm

Maybe I am wrong? :oops: From what I know, lasers measure the SPEED of an object with these methods. If I've made a mistake, excuse me guys, please.
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raymondu999
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Post by raymondu999 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:25 pm

No no; the concept is sound. The doppler effect you mentioned is how speedguns work.

I just don't think this is what's happening in this example.
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