Wheel Slip & Ground Sensors

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
hardingfv32
20
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby hardingfv32 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:44 am

bhallg2k wrote:You might be able to find some information here ( http://www.optimess.cn/?lan=1 ). That's the company who makes the sensors.


I was there, but everything seems mounted outside the wheels. This F1 pod must just be the laser with other instruments, accelerometer,etc., actually in the hubs and/or wheels.

Brian

bhall
370
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby bhall » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:49 am

Somewhere on this site - god knows where, though - there's a picture of an Optimess control box mounted on the front bulkhead, underneath the master cylinders, of some car. If you can find it, you might be able to get a model number and be able to find the specifics you seek.

Or you can ask JerseyTom.

Squall
0
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:02 pm

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Squall » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:21 am

How they reveal the wheel-slip from chassis movement relative to the ground?
Initially i thought it measures wheel slip with centripetal acceleration (accelerometer) and steering angle,and then it is possibile to detect wheel slip.
Correct me if i am wrong.

hardingfv32 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:You'll see them on most cars in testing and on Fridays during race weekends.


Is a laser measuring the chassis movement relative to the ground?

Brian

Pierce89
68
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Pierce89 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:18 pm

Squall wrote:How they reveal the wheel-slip from chassis movement relative to the ground?
Initially i thought it measures wheel slip with centripetal acceleration (accelerometer) and steering angle,and then it is possibile to detect wheel slip.
Correct me if i am wrong.

hardingfv32 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:You'll see them on most cars in testing and on Fridays during race weekends.


Is a laser measuring the chassis movement relative to the ground?

Brian

movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

Squall
0
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:02 pm

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Squall » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info

So, the laser instantly traces the trajectory of the car on the track?
But i have no idea how do this
Is possible that they use this type of laser?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_accelerometer
Last edited by Squall on Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hollus
324
User avatar
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:21 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby hollus » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Does it work the same way an optical mouse does?
Wind turbines are cool, elegant and magnificent. TANSTAAFL!

Jersey Tom
238
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Jersey Tom » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:02 pm

Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info


Well, not quite. But close.

In any event, for those curious about optical sensors... feel free to read up on them.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

Squall
0
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:02 pm

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Squall » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:00 pm

Jersey Tom wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info


Well, not quite. But close.

In any event, for those curious about optical sensors... feel free to read up on them.


Very interesting, thank you!
Do you know how (the physical principle) a laser can measure speed?

raymondu999
138
User avatar
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby raymondu999 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:15 pm

I would think it can sort of track how much it has moved - then divide that by time. I don't see how a laser could measure speed per se - except if you're talking of something like a speed gun
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

Gridlock
49
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:14 am

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Gridlock » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:54 pm

You can also use lasers for non-intrusive airflow measurement, ie a virtual pitot tube but much more advanced. Wind turbines and FADEC flight systems (fly by wire) as well as drones use them.
#58

Jersey Tom
238
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Jersey Tom » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:13 pm

Squall wrote:Very interesting, thank you!
Do you know how (the physical principle) a laser can measure speed?


They do not use lasers. It is an optical velocity sensor.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

italian
2
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:30 am
Location: Italy

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby italian » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:51 pm

Squall wrote:
Jersey Tom wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:movement across the ground combined with steering angle data gives you perfect slip angle info


Well, not quite. But close.

In any event, for those curious about optical sensors... feel free to read up on them.


Very interesting, thank you!
Do you know how (the physical principle) a laser can measure speed?

Pitot Tube is used for measuring speed in F1.
A laser can measure speed with two different methods:
1) The instrument shoot a "ray" to an object and it analyzes the frequency of the ray that "returns" to the instrument. It uses Doppler Effect: the frequency of the ray that returns changes depending of the speed of the object.
2) The instrument measures how long a ray shot to an object does take to "return" to the instrument. It uses the kinematics formula of uniform motion: d=c*t
c= speed of light
t= time for the "returning" of the ray
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, but about the universe I still have some doubts." Albert Einstein
Image
Image

raymondu999
138
User avatar
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby raymondu999 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:12 pm

italian wrote:A laser can measure speed with two different methods:
1) The instrument shoot a "ray" to an object and it analyzes the frequency of the ray that "returns" to the instrument. It uses Doppler Effect: the frequency of the ray that returns changes depending of the speed of the object.
2) The instrument measures how long a ray shot to an object does take to "return" to the instrument. It uses the kinematics formula of uniform motion: d=c*t
c= speed of light
t= time for the "returning" of the ray

Where would the ray shoot? If it were measuring time to return that would probably be a ride height sensor more than anything.

If you were to create a "speed gun" using doppler; where would you shoot? You can't shoot front/rear/sides because the walls etc would change.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

italian
2
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:30 am
Location: Italy

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby italian » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:21 pm

Maybe I am wrong? :oops: From what I know, lasers measure the SPEED of an object with these methods. If I've made a mistake, excuse me guys, please.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, but about the universe I still have some doubts." Albert Einstein
Image
Image

raymondu999
138
User avatar
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby raymondu999 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:25 pm

No no; the concept is sound. The doppler effect you mentioned is how speedguns work.

I just don't think this is what's happening in this example.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法




Return to “Aerodynamics, chassis and tyres”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests