How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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g-force_addict
g-force_addict
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Joined: 18 May 2011, 00:56

How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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I know this might have been asked 100 times but I never found an absolute answer.

Is there an scientific test specifically made to measure tire hardness/softness?
If so How do F1 vs road tires compare to each other?

muz
muz
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Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 10:04

Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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Soft is kinda the wrong word. Sticky maybe fits the bill better. Its not like they can run over things which them totally deform like a sponge.

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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Oh yes, there are many types of hardness testing.. for example using the Shore scale(s) or Rockwell scale(s), etc.

Could you do a hardness test of a F1 tread and compare it to a road tire tread (you wouldn't hardness test "the tire")? Sure. Would it mean anything? No, not at all. What does the hardness or softness matter? What is it going to tell you? Sure isn't going to tell you "grip."

Not to mention "F1 tires" have a pretty broad range depending on compound type, manufacturer, temperature.. and likewise do road tires.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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simply put; if you put a road tire on an f1 car it's gone, shredded, burnt to nothing in 5 corners, and it will be long gone before any f1 car is near their top speed.

if you put an f1 tire on a road car, it'll be gone in a flash just aswell because of the load put on the tires and the fact they'll be far more slippery and thus totally unpractical due to the average temperature of the road and tires in use.

they're both tires. but like the rubber you buy to remove pencil stripes and the rubber you buy at the local pharmacy; they're totally different.
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dynatune
dynatune
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Joined: 28 Aug 2013, 11:03

Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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Depends what you define "hard" or "soft". There are many aspects to a tire other being black and round. For instance the "grip" level of an F1 slick tire is around 1.5 (friction coefficient) compared to a good road tire of 1.1 which would classify it as extremely soft compare to road tires. The cornering stiffness of an F1 tire can go up to 4000N/° of slip angle at a reference load of 4000N whereas a high performance road tire of the same width would be having difficulties achieving half of that value. So from that point of view the F1 tire can be considered extremely hard. The vertical rate of an F1 tire can go up to 400N/mm whereas the vertical rate of a road tire will start giving up around 200N/mm. Likewise for the lateral stiffness of the tire. So here the F1 tire can be characterized as hard too.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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I think the OP means to the touch.
Martin Brundle or Ted Kravitz?? had said that an F1 tyre is very soft to the touch IIRC. While street tires are much harder. Made to last for thousands of kilometers Vs only a few hundred? (I know, different loadings and all but street tyres can ride over rocks etc)
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lebesset
lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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road tyres are fully cured ready for use , they need a bit of running in because they are coated with a releasing agent , but that's all
but with race tyres ,for whatever reason , they not only uses much softer, stickier compounds but also part of the curing process is at the track , hence all the talk of tyres only being good for one lap
clearly this must account for the amount of marbles , I am not suggesting that we should go back to the days when jim clark was able to do three 3 hour races on one set of tyres , but why not something akin to sport car racing ...if you go to the le mans 24 hour and compare the amount of marbles on the track with 3 times as many cars on track you would understand why the drivers can quadruple stint their tyres

so in my view , harder compounds , very little rubber , less marbles , better racing ; yes the drivers would whinge about no grip ...so what ? cream would still come to the top !
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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lebesset wrote:...race tyres ,for whatever reason , they not only uses much softer, stickier compounds but also part of the curing process is at the track , hence all the talk of tyres only being good for one lap
clearly this must account for the amount of marbles ...
Is that true about the curing process or are you just making that up? I also think that the direct link to the marbles is a bit of a stretch too....
Not the engineer at Force India

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
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Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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n smikle wrote:I think the OP means to the touch.
Martin Brundle or Ted Kravitz?? had said that an F1 tyre is very soft to the touch IIRC. While street tires are much harder. Made to last for thousands of kilometers Vs only a few hundred? (I know, different loadings and all but street tyres can ride over rocks etc)
You'll find that many race tires - and I'd wager the current lot of F1 tires - are very stiff to the touch... at ambient temperature. They only soften up at elevated temperature. Which is part of the reason why hardness comparisons on tires is silly.

You'd also be surprised how "soft" many passenger car tires are. Take a car to a racetrack and run some limit laps and the tires will be toast in short order. Consumer tires last for tens of thousands of miles because they're driven mostly in a straight line and only very low accelerations. Plus they have to be acceptable in wet weather, snow...
lebesset wrote:but with race tyres ,for whatever reason , they not only uses much softer, stickier compounds but also part of the curing process is at the track , hence all the talk of tyres only being good for one lap
Eh, I wouldn't say that's true. Certainly any tire or rubber that's held at elevated temperature for some amount of time the mechanical properties will change. It's rare that there are universal rules for these things but I can't think of when you'd send race tires to the track which are under-cured.

Like I alluded to above.. while passenger tires mostly drive in a straight line, there's a lot of really abusive demand on race treads. They've got to have guts. I feel like if you used undercured tires at the racetrack they'd be junk - just disintegrate. Then again with how the Pirelli tires have been...
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

lebesset
lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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I have simplified a bit , it's not just a straight forward alteration in the curing cycle , the vulcanising process is different in order to facilitate it I understand [ don't ask me exactly how , these are trade secrets!]

but with the popularity of track days fully cured track tyres are being introduced as a half way house ....most people don't have access to the kit to treat the tyres at the track !

http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/trackday ... -r888-tyre
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
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Re: How hard or soft are F1 tires compared to road tires?

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lebesset wrote:I have simplified a bit
Oh please feel free to elaborate.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.