Slip angle and power

[Erunanethiel]

When you are in a turn and rear have lost grip ( too much slip angle) if I put more power on the the rear tires (rwd car)
Will the slip angle increase? Can power increase the slip angle?

[Jersey Tom]

Is this basically asking.. if you don't have much rear grip on a RWD car and mash the throttle, will you spin out? Sure.

[SectorOne]

If you oversteer through on throttle, you let off to save it.
If you oversteer through for example lift off oversteer you can add throttle to move weight on the rears.

[Erunanethiel]

Is this baslically asking.. if you slip 't have much rear grip on a RWD car and mash thpower youle, will you spin out? Sure.

Yeah but does that change the slip Angle? Does what slip you have change your longitional grip? (how much power you can put down)

[flynfrog]

Yes. Your tires can only provide so much force.

[flynfrog]

It looks more like this

[DaveKillens]

When you are in a turn and rear have lost grip ( too much slip angle) if I put more power on the the rear tires (rwd car)
Will the slip angle increase? Can power increase the slip angle?

If you have exceeded the point where the slip angle is at it's maximum, then it drops off quite rapidly. Basically, the back end is coming around. The usual correction is to lift the throttle, turn into the spin, and pray that you can collect it back. But if you apply power, woopsie dooo.

Power does not increase the slip angle, that is determined by the tires, the lateral load, and grip available. In rally cars and the domestic sedan, the tire slip angle is wide and generous. But in a Formula One tire, because they are designed for incredible grip on asphalt, the slip angle is incredibly fine, less than 6 degrees. Once past that point, they fall off the cliff.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... f=1&t=5967

[Erunanethiel]

When you are in a turn and rear have lost grip ( too much slip angle) if I put more power on the the rear tires (rwd car)
Will the slip angle increase? Can power increase the slip angle?

If you have exceeded the point where the slip angle is at it's maximum, then it drops off quite rapidly. Basically, the back end is coming around. The usual correction is to lift the throttle, turn into the spin, and pray that you can collect it back. But if you apply power, woopsie dooo.

Power does not increase the slip angle, that is determined by the tires, the lateral load, and grip available. In rally cars and the domestic sedan, the tire slip angle is wide and generous. But in a Formula One tire, because they are designed for incredible grip on asphalt, the slip angle is incredibly fine, less than 6 degrees. Once past that point, they fall off the cliff.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... f=1&t=5967

So I should change my question ( because I think I found a sitiuation to answer my question perfectly).
I have rear wheel drive car that doesnt have much power. For example gt86.
If I take off the Prius tires and put some proper ( michelin pilot cups? Maybe) now my gt86 cant spin its tires off the line due to the lack of power. But in a corner, if I start the oversteer by transfering weight (the rear wheels are sliding, too much slip angle) will I be able to balance the car or make it oversteer more on throttle? ( has the longitional grip decrease?)

[Lycoming]

The more lateral force you're getting from the tire contact patch, the less longitudinal force you will be able to get out of it. But forward acceleration will transfer more weight onto the rear wheels, which will allow you to generate more longitudinal and lateral force. Whether or not that results in you spinning out requires more details.

[Erunanethiel]

The more lateral force you're getting from the tire contact patch, the less longitudinal force you will be able to get out of it. But forward acceleration will transfer more weight onto the rear wheels, which will allow you to generate more longitudinal and lateral force. Whether or not that results in you spinning out requires more details.

How about like if I am over the slip angle which the tire gives its top lateral performance, is it now easier for me to spin the tires more even tho I dont have much power? I can keep the car sliding all day long, once I started it through weight shift?

[DaveKillens]

It sounds like you're thinking of drifting. I really hope you don't try that on the street.

[Erunanethiel]

It sounds like you're thinking of drifting. I really hope you don't try that on the street.

Oh yeah I drift everywhere

Am I not brilliant? =D> =D>

[Erunanethiel]

So lets stay on the subject.
Is there a correlation between slip angle (lateral grip) and slip ratio (longitudional grip)?

[Erunanethiel]

Nobody knows?

[Tommy Cookers]

So lets stay on the subject.
Is there a correlation between slip angle (lateral grip) and slip ratio (longitudional grip)?

how could there not be ?
IIRC such an effect has been presented in engineering texts
eg in the context of mechanisms to de-friction or de-stiction elements in mechanical handling/motion applications
a rotating bearer will allow low friction translational motion of a load in the direction of the rotational axis (and vice-versa)

there is a range of rear axle torques in which rear slip angles reduce and front slip angles increase (relative to other ranges)
this range is the drifting range, the term drifting (short for 4-wheel drifting) emerging in the 1930s
nowadays drifting has become a meaningless term relating to operation beyond this range of torques
where only the driver knows whether there is significant front slip hidden by armloads of countersteer/opposite lock
99% of the time there is not, little skill is involved, and it is only what was in earlier times called a powerslide
ie it looks good but the (apex) speed is low

the way to get into the drifting range is to go faster into the corner
maybe you are doing this already ?