Pirelli extreme wet tyres

[Moose]

Hamilton and Vettel are claiming that the wet tires need to be better.

Interestingly, they say they clear plenty of water, but they're just not a very fast tire. The result is that the drivers all want to put the inter on earlier than they really should.

This would certainly explain why we see the safety car out, but drivers wanting inters already. It's not (necessarily) that the FIA are leaving the safety car out for longer, it's that the drivers will use the inter even when they should be using the wet, because it's a faster tire.

[trinidefender]

Would like to hear what other drivers have to say about this but if it is true then I can see why drivers may want to go to inters in conditions that might be dangerous for them, in an effort to improve lap times.

The actual grip of wet weather tyres is still largely decided by the compound one the water dispersal issue has been taken care of.

According to the article it seems that because the full wet isn't quick enough it isn't used for very long. If it already isn't used for very long then I would imagine that it doesn't need to last very long. Therefore with the requirement of it not lasting very long a softer compound which is faster can be chosen....problem is now we get the situation where the full wet will have more grip and drivers will want to run them longer.

I guess it is a balancing act, if what Vettel and Lewis say is true then I am in full agreement with them and this can be a bigger safety problem than we know.

[langwadt]

Would like to hear what other drivers have to say about this but if it is true then I can see why drivers may want to go to inters in conditions that might be dangerous for them, in an effort to improve lap times.

The actual grip of wet weather tyres is still largely decided by the compound one the water dispersal issue has been taken care of.

According to the article it seems that because the full wet isn't quick enough it isn't used for very long. If it already isn't used for very long then I would imagine that it doesn't need to last very long. Therefore with the requirement of it not lasting very long a softer compound which is faster can be chosen....problem is now we get the situation where the full wet will have more grip and drivers will want to run them longer.

I guess it is a balancing act, if what Vettel and Lewis say is true then I am in full agreement with them and this can be a bigger safety problem than we know.

If the inters are faster they obviously fit the conditions better, I imagine it is just the gap that is too big.
i.e. it is "too dry" for the extremes, but it is less "too wet" for the inters

[trinidefender]

Would like to hear what other drivers have to say about this but if it is true then I can see why drivers may want to go to inters in conditions that might be dangerous for them, in an effort to improve lap times.

The actual grip of wet weather tyres is still largely decided by the compound one the water dispersal issue has been taken care of.

According to the article it seems that because the full wet isn't quick enough it isn't used for very long. If it already isn't used for very long then I would imagine that it doesn't need to last very long. Therefore with the requirement of it not lasting very long a softer compound which is faster can be chosen....problem is now we get the situation where the full wet will have more grip and drivers will want to run them longer.

I guess it is a balancing act, if what Vettel and Lewis say is true then I am in full agreement with them and this can be a bigger safety problem than we know.

If the inters are faster they obviously fit the conditions better, I imagine it is just the gap that is too big.
i.e. it is "too dry" for the extremes, but it is less "too wet" for the inters

That's the problem. They are faster in all but the wettest conditions. Along with that they have more of a chance of aqua-planing. As soon as the track dries a little, where the compound on the inters work better then teams and drivers will switch to inters. The problem lies with the fact that at this transition point the inters will be faster right up until the point they hit a patch or standing water and start to aqua-plane.

The article seems to say the Vettel and Lewis both think that if the compound on the full wet was more biased toward grip instead of tread life then teams/drivers would use the full wets more instead of risking aqua-planing by going out with the inters. Get what I mean now?

*edit* this may help. More siping and grooves on the tyres don't necessarily help with wet weather grip per say. They mainly stop the tyre from aqua-planing and losing all grip. The grip still comes from the tyre to surface contact area.

[Glyn]

Would like to hear what other drivers have to say about this but if it is true then I can see why drivers may want to go to inters in conditions that might be dangerous for them, in an effort to improve lap times.

The actual grip of wet weather tyres is still largely decided by the compound one the water dispersal issue has been taken care of.

According to the article it seems that because the full wet isn't quick enough it isn't used for very long. If it already isn't used for very long then I would imagine that it doesn't need to last very long. Therefore with the requirement of it not lasting very long a softer compound which is faster can be chosen....problem is now we get the situation where the full wet will have more grip and drivers will want to run them longer.

I guess it is a balancing act, if what Vettel and Lewis say is true then I am in full agreement with them and this can be a bigger safety problem than we know.

If the inters are faster they obviously fit the conditions better, I imagine it is just the gap that is too big.
i.e. it is "too dry" for the extremes, but it is less "too wet" for the inters

That's the problem. They are faster in all but the wettest conditions. Along with that they have more of a chance of aqua-planing. As soon as the track dries a little, where the compound on the inters work better then teams and drivers will switch to inters. The problem lies with the fact that at this transition point the inters will be faster right up until the point they hit a patch or standing water and start to aqua-plane.

The article seems to say the Vettel and Lewis both think that if the compound on the full wet was more biased toward grip instead of tread life then teams/drivers would use the full wets more instead of risking aqua-planing by going out with the inters. Get what I mean now?

*edit* this may help. More siping and grooves on the tyres don't necessarily help with wet weather grip per say. They mainly stop the tyre from aqua-planing and losing all grip. The grip still comes from the tyre to surface contact area.

With this 65 litres per second figure Pirelli give.

Do the FIA ever let the cars race in wet enough conditions where this amount of water applies?

I just remember whenever a sprinkle of rain happens. Cars either slide off, or it's a safety car.

[SectorOne]

Maybe the inters are too good, too wide of an operating window where the drivers rather take a chance on it then staying out on the full wets until the track is properly cleared up for inters.

[acosmichippo]

I've been thinking this for a couple years now actually. They're never allowed to race in current "wet" conditions.

The wet tires are good for clearing water from the track, as evidenced by all of the spray. That causes poor visibility, which in turn causes Charlie to leave the safety car out so long. By the time visibility is good enough (in other words, less tire spray), by definition there is hardly any water left on the track. Thus, time for inters.

So to me it seems like we don't need a "wet" and "intermediate" tire, but more like "intermediate level 1" and "intermediate level 2".

[trinidefender]

I've been thinking this for a couple years now actually. They're never allowed to race in current "wet" conditions.

The wet tires are good for clearing water from the track, as evidenced by all of the spray. That causes poor visibility, which in turn causes Charlie to leave the safety car out so long. By the time visibility is good enough (in other words, less tire spray), by definition there is hardly any water left on the track. Thus, time for inters.

So to me it seems like we don't need a "wet" and "intermediate" tire, but more like "intermediate level 1" and "intermediate level 2".

And also at this point the inters will generally provide more grip right up until the point that they aqua-plane, which wouldn't have happened with the full wets.

[AnthonyG]

Maybe the inters are too good, too wide of an operating window where the drivers rather take a chance on it then staying out on the full wets until the track is properly cleared up for inters.

I think inters from bridgestone were by far superior.

[Jersey Tom]

Makes me wonder if you'd be better off having just one wet tire - something between a current inter and monsoon tire but leaning closer to the inter.

Racing in the wet / damp is great. Makes for interesting and fun (to the fan!) setup decisions and showcases a different facet of driver talent. Racing in pouring rain I feel like is more harm than good. I'd suspect that racing when visibility = 0 you're almost negating any edge in driver talent when nobody can see anything.

[BanMeToo]

That's exactly what they should do.

[acosmichippo]

I was thinking that too, but if they make the performance gap too great between the inters and slicks, then drivers/teams will try to go out too early on slicks. you're just shifting the problem.

[Jersey Tom]

I was thinking that too, but if they make the performance gap too great between the inters and slicks, then drivers/teams will try to go out too early on slicks. you're just shifting the problem.

They already do that.

[Sevach]

I was thinking that too, but if they make the performance gap too great between the inters and slicks, then drivers/teams will try to go out too early on slicks. you're just shifting the problem.

I highly doubt it, there's an abyss on the jump to slicks.
You jump too early you can't even think of touching the throttle.

[trinidefender]

My personal opinion is make the inters slightly more biased toward dry weather (when I say slightly I mean just a few percent. Therefore teams will have less of a problem going to the inters even if the track gets a little wet.

For the full wets I would leave the siping how it is as teams seem to be happy with the amount of water they remove but give it a softer compound. This will help ensure that it is more grippy even in conditions that don't fully call for full wets. As a result teams/drivers won't feel as pressured to move onto the inters so early where the inters may still be in danger of aquaplaning