Pirelli 2015

[Silent Storm]

So do i get this right?

They want to reduce the work Load on the inner Tire Shoulder by reducing the Camber, just to put the work Load right back on the inner Tire Shoulder by upping the Tyre Pressure? And in the same time force every team to start their Setup Work with a blank Sheet of Paper because no one has experience what happens with the Tire Pressures that high?

If true, gg Pirelli.....

Less camber will reduce work load on inner tyre and the higher tyre pressure will bring it back to nominal level as some teams run very low tyre pressure. High tyre pressure won't have that much effect on inner tyre I fear.

[Thunder]

yeah i got something wrong there. Will be interesting to see how the Teams deal with it, the Contact Patch of the Tires should get smaller now right? So less grip and more danger of overheating.

[Silent Storm]

yeah i got something wrong there. Will be interesting to see how the Teams deal with it, the Contact Patch of the Tires should get smaller now right? So less grip and more danger of overheating.

It would Improve braking and have a small effect on cornering. The effects of this will vary from team to team and I fear the cars will understeer more now.

[Just_a_fan]

The external factors are demonstrated by a total of 63 cuts found in the tread of the Formula One tyres used over the course of the Spa weekend, following numerous incidents that took place during the support races before the Formula One grand prix. In the previous 15 events (10 races and five test sessions) an average of only 1.2 cuts per event were noted. All this indicates an anomalous amount of detritus on the track in Spa, with a consequent increased risk of encountering a foreign object.

That's a very large difference between Spa and other tracks and goes some way to show why there was a couple of incidents at Spa.

Obviously this view goes against the witch hunt hysteria hereabouts but that's what happens when facts spoil the party.

Pirelli have done exactly what they were asked to do by the FIA/FOM/the teams. Sadly Pirelli get the blame - I don't understand why they don't just build some indestructible tyres and say "there you are, race those". And then walk away at the end of their contract.

When the next tyre supplier arrives and brings only 100-lap tyres, we'll look back fondly on these days and remember when F1 wasn't processional...

[Thunder]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 1941907457

[BanMeToo]

Pirelli has been a first class partner of Formula One during the five seasons in which it has been the official supplier of tyres to the FIA Formula One World Championship and we continue to have full confidence in the safety, quality and suitability of its tyres.

Within the constraints of safety considerations, which are always paramount, Formula One encourages Pirelli to provide tyre compounds with performance limitations because tyre degradation contributes to the challenge and entertainment of a Formula One race. When doing so, Pirelli provides strong guidance to competitors about any performance limitations of the tyres supplied. Competitors should heed Pirelli’s expert advice when setting their race strategy and tactics, and if they do not, it is at their own risk.

We are entirely satisfied that Pirelli was not at fault for any tyre-related incidents during the 2015 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix.

Pirelli has offered to provide to each car a single set of tyres to last for an entire event. While we know that they would be very capable of it, a race with no pit stops would be less exciting.

Thank you, Pirelli, for helping us to deliver excitement to Formula One fans!

[Vortex Motio]

I wonder if there is a technical reason for Pirelli's rather radical recommendation of raising pressures by 5psi for Monza?

Front recommendation goes from 18 to 23psi, rears from 17 to 22psi.

Their Spa analysis showed the two failures their were due to cuts. The only other factor mentioned was that Vettel's tire was down to 30% tread depth, but cut from debris was determined to be primary cause.

The 0.5 degree camber change (F 3.5° to 3°, and R 2.5 to 2­°) can be justified by Pirelli's pre-race statement highlighting shoulder (inner tread) work of tire here:

The biggest challenges for the tyres:
A fast circuit like Monza tends to be more demanding on tyres than a slow circuit, as all
the forces at work encourage heat build-up, particularly on the shoulder of the tyre.
There are significant lateral energy demands at Monza, due to long corners such as
Parabolica, as well as big longitudinal demands, because of all the traction and braking.

Also, this year Pirelli is bringing one step softer compounds to Monza, since last year's medium & hard compounds resulted in a 1 stop race for the grid.

5psi is a rather huge change, and I'm not seeing a technical reason for it, but perhaps I'm overlooking something.

[Just_a_fan]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 1941907457

This could be the only hope that the field has of catching Mercedes...

[flmkane]

Pirelli tyres are crap.

Sure, they are supposed to degrade and get slow. Fine. But why do they blow up? Repeatedly? For five years?

Tyres can be made such that they degrade over specific number of laps, till they are 10 sec a lap slower. But they should never blow up. Look at China 2007. Ham's tyres were worn out to the point where they could not keep the car on track. But they did not explode.

Pirelli make crap racing tyres.

[BanMeToo]

I wonder if there is a technical reason for Pirelli's rather radical recommendation of raising pressures by 5psi for Monza?

This is a rumor. Not something Pirelli has actually said or done. Pirelli will make an announcement about it tomorrow. The current and more realistic rumor is that they'll suggest a 2-3 pound increase.

[SimRacer]

delete please

[flmkane]

Maybe it's because I'm captain obvious.

Really though, it's not just the fact that vettel lost a podium. Pirelli tyres are downright dangerous. To the point where they endanger lives. Remember Alonso dodging a tyre in Silverstone 2013?

Let's not forget that Pirelli wets are so terrible that racing in the wet has effectively died out.

And I don't care what the FOM and FIA say, I think the crappy wet tyres contributed to the 2014 Japanese Gp disaster.

So overall, there is no reason to defend Pirelli when their tyres are making f1 more dangerous AND artificial. No matter if I get 1000 downvotes, Pirelli racing tyres are still crap

[SimRacer]

delete please

[bhall II]

Pirelli have done exactly what they were asked to do by the FIA/FOM/the teams. Sadly Pirelli get the blame - I don't understand why they don't just build some indestructible tyres and say "there you are, race those". And then walk away at the end of their contract.

Whether one agree with the premise or not, I think everyone understands that Pirelli has been given a remit to produce tires with certain characteristics that "spice up" the racing. The problem is that no one seems to understand the consequences of doing so, least of all Pirelli.

Remember this?

We know that it's clearly wear-related, it's basically tearing of the tyres in some cases, certainly the super-soft and to an extent the softer tyre have not had the strength that we needed.

Ya think?

Plus, they've required an unprecedented level of regulatory coddling, as the incoming usage restrictions don't mark the first time Pirelli has needed teams to compromise setup in order to protect the tires...



Fair enough. It was their first year in the sport, and they needed to get their feet wet.



Wait, what? Did someone forget what "only" means?

The rain tires are a joke...

"Not only have we lost 20-30 per cent downforce due to the regulation, they also give us the hardest compound available," Sutil told AUTOSPORT.

"They've made the tyres harder, they've got rid of the downforce and now we have no grip. And in the rain you have no grip anyway and a bad rain tyre.

"It's all over the place. It's not only us, you can see the on-board [videos] of other cars; it's like rally driving."

Williams driver Felipe Massa agreed with Sutil's assessment and reckons Pirelli should revise its compounds.

"I don't like them as well," he told AUTOSPORT. "You go out on the first lap and it's the best, then you get slower because you lose grip.

"The degradation in the wet, the way the wet behaves, is not good."

"They're not great tyres. That's no secret," said Mercedes' Hamilton.

And after a series of failures in 2013, when it became obvious to everyone that something was wrong with the tires, Pirelli refused to avail itself of the power to unilaterally force a change in specification, because it would have required them to take a PR hit and admit that delaminations are unsafe...

Pirelli had wanted to introduce a revised specification of tyre at [the 2013 British GP], but refused to press for it on safety grounds. As a result, the teams were not able to reach a unanimous decision to approve the new tyres.

Before I knew that there are minimum starting pressures, I was ready to give Pirelli a pass for this latest round of mishaps, because I understand that teams can and will do dumb --- if they think it will provide an advantage...

The manufacturer said, in its first statement, that all the failures [at the 2013 British GP] happened on cars with the rear tyres mounted on opposite sides of the car from the one intended.

This has become common practice this season as teams try to manage usage of tyres that have been designed to wear out quickly to guarantee races with multiple pit stops.

Pirelli was aware of the practice but has now admitted it "underestimated" the effect it could have and admitted it "did not forbid" it.

[quote="crash.net, "Newey admits Spa [2011] was 'scariest race'""]"Pirelli were telling us after qualifying that our tyres were very marginal and they wouldn't say whether it was after half a lap or five laps, but they were going to fail," Newey, who was part of the Williams team during the fateful Imola weekend in 1994, revealed to BBC Sport after the race, "I have to say it was one of the scariest races I've been involved in, it was heart-in-the-mouth stuff, as first and foremost our duty of care is to the driver safety. Trying to make that call in making sure the car was safe, while not handicapping ourselves from a performance point of view, was quite a difficult judgement to make. Frankly, at the end of the race, I was very relieved that both our drivers were safe."

Newey explained that deviating slightly from Pirelli's recommended camber settings may have led to blisters appearing on the inside shoulder of the RB7's front tyres, and admitted that, had the team known of the outcome, would probably not have followed that route. When the FIA refused the request for fresh tyres, RBR was left with the choice of changing the camber settings, which would have forced the team to start from the pit-lane, or increase tyre pressure and go for an early pit-stop. Naturally, with Vettel and Webber first and third on the grid, they went for the second option, with Webber stopping on lap three and Vettel on lap five. They eventually came home first and second, with the German extending his championship lead over Webber and the rest of the field. [/quote]
But when you have enforced minimum starting pressures and camber angles, along with longevity guidelines, the tires need to meet expectations, and there are only so many times you can blame "cuts."

It would probably be pretty easy to look past any one of these issues in isolation, because we all know that nothing is perfect. But, this stuff just keeps going on and on and on and on and on...

[dans79]

And after a series of failures in 2013, when it became obvious to everyone that something was wrong with the tires, Pirelli refused to avail itself of the power to unilaterally force a change in specification, because it would have required them to take a PR hit and admit that delaminations are unsafe...

But when you have enforced minimum starting pressures and camber angles, along with longevity guidelines, the tires need to meet expectations, and there are only so many times you can blame "cuts."

These two points, are the crux of the problem. Pirelli are so focused on only having positive press, that they make what is legitimate negative press worse, because they won't own up to anything. It's to the point now, that the drivers don't believe anything Pirelli says.