2017 Tyres revealed

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
mclaren111
55
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: JHB Hell Hole - South Africa

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by mclaren111 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:09 pm

Waike cu:
It's both really. Perfect match would be a nostalgic touch with present performance. I think everyone would like that tbh. The rims Martin Brundle tested on a GP2 car back in Monaco seem ridiculous to me. I wouldn't mind adding an extra inch of rim, but not more than that.
But the front tyres looks to big. I would go down to 11" rims at front !!

wuzak
259
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by wuzak » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:31 am

WaikeCU wrote:
Thunders wrote:
WaikeCU wrote:
Not really... Looks kinda nostalgic to me.
But is Nostalgia really what F1 needs? I mean i understand that many People love these huge Balloon Tires, i just don't happen to be one of them. In my Book the LMP1 Rim/Tire Ratio is what they should have been going for. But that has been discussed to Death in other Threads, no need to do it again.
It's both really. Perfect match would be a nostalgic touch with present performance. I think everyone would like that tbh. The rims Martin Brundle tested on a GP2 car back in Monaco seem ridiculous to me. I wouldn't mind adding an extra inch of rim, but not more than that.
Michelin's proposal was for larger diameter rims (18") but not for low profile tyres. The Outside diameter of the tyres would have grown ~60mm. While this would be Ok for the rears, it may have been a problem for the fronts. Maybe they could have gone for 16" rims with 660mm diameter tyres (same as now) at the front and the 18" rims/720mm diameter tyres at the rear. That would have been even more back to the future with the front and rear diameters being different.

wuzak
259
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by wuzak » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:38 am

enry86 wrote:
agip wrote:http://i.imgur.com/vYxSqgv.jpg

Is it a 2016 or 2017 track width?
I was going to ask the same question, I tried to compare it with some pics of the original car but it's not clear to me whether they elongated the suspension whishbones or if they are the original ones.

Anyway I already like how the car looks like, so if this is a 2016 spec suspension I think I'll be pleased to see the extra track width :D
The tyres at the rear are 80mm wider than last year's tyres, so the overall width will be at least 1960mm. Most likely the front and rear suspension is new to suit the larger and heavier wheels and tyres.

godlameroso
125
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by godlameroso » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:43 am

The width of the floor is going to be 1600mm but the side pods and tub and intakes won't increase in size, on the contrary, every year they make the power units with better packaging, and with more efficient cooling. There will be some teething issues during the first half of next year.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

wuzak
259
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by wuzak » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:41 am

godlameroso wrote:The width of the floor is going to be 1600mm but the side pods and tub and intakes won't increase in size, on the contrary, every year they make the power units with better packaging, and with more efficient cooling. There will be some teething issues during the first half of next year.
The regulations will limit the width of the body to 1400mm.

henry
44
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by henry » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:55 am

I wonder who specified the downforce levels for the test cars?

The teams won't want to reveal how much downforce they expect to generate under the new regulations. So if they have been asked they will have suggested a figure at the low end of what they think is possible. And then implemented some modifications to achieve that.

This would result in Pirelli having to estimate how the tyres might perform with the "real", higher, levels of downforce the teams really expect to achieve.

Maybe Pirelli have set the figures based on what the FIA , strategy group, teams etc have told them. In which case I would hope they will have added a project managers' contingency to any values they've been given.

It's not easy being a supplier to a sport where competitive dissembling is a fundamental skill.

mclaren111
55
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: JHB Hell Hole - South Africa

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:13 am

godlameroso:
The width of the floor is going to be 1600mm but the side pods and tub and intakes won't increase in size, on the contrary, every year they make the power units with better packaging, and with more efficient cooling. There will be some teething issues during the first half of next year.
Herewith picture of changes with sizes:

Image

I also agree with doing away with fuel limits !!! Race flatout from start to finish !!!

Should see different approaches on floor width !!!

gandharva
86
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Munich

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by gandharva » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:17 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image

djos
83
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by djos » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:37 pm

Dam they look good! =D>
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

n_anirudh
26
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:43 am

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by n_anirudh » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:44 pm

What about the pit stops?

Will they be longer as tires weigh heavier. Will this require stronger wheel nuts.

Will the current compound sets be retained?

Restomaniac
1
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 12:09 am

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by Restomaniac » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:54 pm

henry wrote:I wonder who specified the downforce levels for the test cars?

The teams won't want to reveal how much downforce they expect to generate under the new regulations. So if they have been asked they will have suggested a figure at the low end of what they think is possible. And then implemented some modifications to achieve that.

This would result in Pirelli having to estimate how the tyres might perform with the "real", higher, levels of downforce the teams really expect to achieve.

Maybe Pirelli have set the figures based on what the FIA , strategy group, teams etc have told them. In which case I would hope they will have added a project managers' contingency to any values they've been given.

It's not easy being a supplier to a sport where competitive dissembling is a fundamental skill.
They covered this in the team principles conference. 3 teams are supplying old 2015 'mule' cars for 2017 modification (Redbull, Merc and Ferrari) all the data of those tests will be available to all teams.

I don't think they are looking at team specifics. I think they are looking at the teams and Pirelli getting a baseline so everyone knows where they are.

I have a feeling that looking at the tyres and the fact that the engines aren't changing much that the tyres will out perform the cars next year anyway.

henry
44
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by henry » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:25 pm

Restomaniac wrote:
henry wrote:I wonder who specified the downforce levels for the test cars?

The teams won't want to reveal how much downforce they expect to generate under the new regulations. So if they have been asked they will have suggested a figure at the low end of what they think is possible. And then implemented some modifications to achieve that.

This would result in Pirelli having to estimate how the tyres might perform with the "real", higher, levels of downforce the teams really expect to achieve.

Maybe Pirelli have set the figures based on what the FIA , strategy group, teams etc have told them. In which case I would hope they will have added a project managers' contingency to any values they've been given.

It's not easy being a supplier to a sport where competitive dissembling is a fundamental skill.
They covered this in the team principles conference. 3 teams are supplying old 2015 'mule' cars for 2017 modification (Redbull, Merc and Ferrari) all the data of those tests will be available to all teams.

I don't think they are looking at team specifics. I think they are looking at the teams and Pirelli getting a baseline so everyone knows where they are.

I have a feeling that looking at the tyres and the fact that the engines aren't changing much that the tyres will out perform the cars next year anyway.
Thanks. Which team principle conference? Germany?

My observation was that someone must have decided how much downforce to generate in the modified 2015 cars. In the past each time the FIA have changed regulations to reduce downforce they have underestimated what the teams would be able to achieve. So if they tried to reduce by 20% the teams would turn up at race 1 at 10% and within 2 years be generating more downforce than under the previous regulations. So for 2017 the FIA probably have an estimate for the increase in downforce but History shows we can expect the teams to do better than that. If Pirelli use the FIA estimate, and if the teams produce test mules that match the FIA numbers, it's likely that come the tests next spring the tyres might experience significantly higher loads than they have experienced in the mule tests.

Every body will know the history but it would be tricky politically for Pirelli or the teams to tell the FIA that they always get it wrong and so the tyres need to be designed and tested at higher loads than the regulations are designed to promote.

Restomaniac
1
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 12:09 am

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by Restomaniac » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:38 pm

henry wrote:
Restomaniac wrote:
henry wrote:I wonder who specified the downforce levels for the test cars?

The teams won't want to reveal how much downforce they expect to generate under the new regulations. So if they have been asked they will have suggested a figure at the low end of what they think is possible. And then implemented some modifications to achieve that.

This would result in Pirelli having to estimate how the tyres might perform with the "real", higher, levels of downforce the teams really expect to achieve.

Maybe Pirelli have set the figures based on what the FIA , strategy group, teams etc have told them. In which case I would hope they will have added a project managers' contingency to any values they've been given.

It's not easy being a supplier to a sport where competitive dissembling is a fundamental skill.
They covered this in the team principles conference. 3 teams are supplying old 2015 'mule' cars for 2017 modification (Redbull, Merc and Ferrari) all the data of those tests will be available to all teams.

I don't think they are looking at team specifics. I think they are looking at the teams and Pirelli getting a baseline so everyone knows where they are.

I have a feeling that looking at the tyres and the fact that the engines aren't changing much that the tyres will out perform the cars next year anyway.
Thanks. Which team principle conference? Germany?

My observation was that someone must have decided how much downforce to generate in the modified 2015 cars. In the past each time the FIA have changed regulations to reduce downforce they have underestimated what the teams would be able to achieve. So if they tried to reduce by 20% the teams would turn up at race 1 at 10% and within 2 years be generating more downforce than under the previous regulations. So for 2017 the FIA probably have an estimate for the increase in downforce but History shows we can expect the teams to do better than that. If Pirelli use the FIA estimate, and if the teams produce test mules that match the FIA numbers, it's likely that come the tests next spring the tyres might experience significantly higher loads than they have experienced in the mule tests.

Every body will know the history but it would be tricky politically for Pirelli or the teams to tell the FIA that they always get it wrong and so the tyres need to be designed and tested at higher loads than the regulations are designed to promote.
Yeah it was Germany.

I get your point but I can imagine Pirelli will see what you are talking about coming a mile away.
That's is what I meant by a baseline. It's just a working range and if teams end up miles away then Pirelli will just use things like tyre pressures to keep things in check.

Fifty
3
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:19 pm

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by Fifty » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:00 am

Have any of the drivers talked about their opinion of the new tires now they have run a few days of testing?

Chuckjr
28
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:34 am

Re: 2017 Tyres revealed

Post by Chuckjr » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:27 am

These tires are absolutely mental. :shock: :shock: :shock: =D> =D> =D>



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 4 guests