Ground-effect underbody for future F1 return? will it deserved

[theriusDR3]

Current F1 cars are utilizing flat underbody F1 downside car. Ground effects underbody are currently used in GP2 Series, IndyCar Series and other open-wheel single-seater competitions. Ground effects underbody are used to make the car faster.

[wesley123]

Current floors run in ground effect as well. But I get what you mean, tunnels like the wing cars of the 80s.

And no, they will not return. A significant issue with aero in proximity to the ground is that their downforce generation changes based on distance to the ground. Too close to the ground and you suddenly kill most downforce. This makes the whole thing just dangerous, and is the reason why underbody aero is heavily regulated in pretty much every series.

[mrluke]

Current floors run in ground effect as well. But I get what you mean, tunnels like the wing cars of the 80s.

And no, they will not return. A significant issue with aero in proximity to the ground is that their downforce generation changes based on distance to the ground. Too close to the ground and you suddenly kill most downforce. This makes the whole thing just dangerous, and is the reason why underbody aero is heavily regulated in pretty much every series.

I am sure it is not beyond the wit of man to shape the floor such that the flow wont choke. Alternatively there is always bump stops.

[Facts Only]

Ground effects underbody are used to make the car faster.

I love this sentence, it has been making me chuckle with its obviousness. Surely though we can extend this sentence to everything ever designed to fit an F1 car that wasnt mandated by the rules.

No engineer has ever willingly fitted anything to an F1 car that has made it go slower.

[flynfrog]

Ground effects underbody are used to make the car faster.

I love this sentence, it has been making me chuckle with its obviousness. Surely though we can extend this sentence to everything ever designed to fit an F1 car that wasnt mandated by the rules.

No engineer has ever willingly fitted anything to an F1 car that has made it go slower.

brakes?

[bhall II]

brakes?

How much slower would cars be if they had to coast down to speeds suitable for cornering?

[flynfrog]

Depends where we take the data from.

[Facts Only]

Ground effects underbody are used to make the car faster.

I love this sentence, it has been making me chuckle with its obviousness. Surely though we can extend this sentence to everything ever designed to fit an F1 car that wasnt mandated by the rules.

No engineer has ever willingly fitted anything to an F1 car that has made it go slower.

brakes?

Ha! Bloody smart arse!

[Jolle]

I asume underbody tunnels are mostly used in one-maker series at the moment, to generate lots of relative cheap downforce. If 11 teams would get in a design competition over underbody efficiency with more liberty then now (a flat body with a step and a diffuser at the end) it would get very very expensive. Plus, you need Badoer or Maldonado back to have fans seeing the underbody developments.

[bhall II]

Depends where we take the data from.

That had to register at least 8.5 on the Pucker Scale.

[autodoctor911]

I think a safer form of "ground effect" floors would be a good thing to return in f1.

As long as there is a minimum ride height for any body part with rub blocks at 3 or 4 points that all other body parts must lie above, and a minimum cross section of open space above the plane in any lateral cross section(to prevent choking) it should be safe enough. It would make sense to limit the height of the floor in the engine, gearbox area to simplify diffuser designs, so as to not have to be intricately integrated with mechanical components, just to reduce costs.

If, instead of limiting downforce by rules, let the natural trade off with drag be the limiting factor, there would be less need to spend so much time finding small gains.

[Scorpaguy]

GE's...

...IMHO, If F1 wants to return to relevance, GE's are far more relevant to road cars than are aero wings/foils/other such nonsense. I think it would be great to let the teams "loose" on GE's...including those that the driver can adjust to trim the car out on the straights and generate downforce in the turns when needed. I would go as far to advocate for NO SIGNIFICANTLYPROTRUDING aero bodywork at all...smoothing/cleaning the lines...minimizing drag to the extreme. Heck, I'd even welcome design work ala the Chaparral 2J and Brabham BT46b. Wings be damned...lets put cars back on the track instead of airplanes.


PS...I am a known lunatic.

[Cold Fussion]

So you say F1 needs ground effects to be 'relevant' to road cars again and then say F1 should go down the fan car route. Are you quite alright?

[FW17]

There was a chance of having it return for 2013 then 2014, probably discussed for 2017 as well

But established 4 teams wanted retain their existing data from the past years in the new rules. The number of people working in the aero department are just too many to start a clean sheet design

Safety issues with full length tunnels are a thing of the past. Champcar used this design element all through, never having the issue of stalling. They did not even have stepped floors like F1 cars do.

[mrluke]

The reason the big teams don't want GE to return is because they would lose their regulation enshrined position of dominance.