Why was this FW Endplate design so popular?

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Post Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:06 pm

Image
Image


Seems to me that in the mid 2000's a variation on this design was found on almost F1 cars FW's.The popularity of this design has intrigued me. Ive also seen it on the front wing of sports racers.
The uneducated ideas ive come up with are that for some reason this shape reduces induced drag,creates a usable vortex,or is part of the endplates thin airfoil.
If someone could help explain the theory of this design to me Id really appreciate it.
Thanks.
NormalChris
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:48 pm

I always thought that it accelerated air flow
Spencer
Shrek
 
Joined: 5 Jun 2009
Location: right here

Post Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:41 pm

The notch has something to do with turning. It allows airflow to go through the notch when the car is changing direction. I don't know any more details but clearly is based on transient flow on the wing between the end plates.
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ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:01 am

ringo wrote:The notch has something to do with turning. It allows airflow to go through the notch when the car is changing direction. I don't know any more details but clearly is based on transient flow on the wing between the end plates.


Thats interesting.I might be reading you incorrectly, Id think that while turning youd want to maintain whatever airflow you have as well as inhibit any perpendicular flow from disrupting unless its channeled in the appropriate direction.
NormalChris
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:05 am

I thought that was so Michael could use it as a boot scraper

Alternatively - maybe these days the V would not be straight-sided but instead blend into the rest of the endplate, which would look a lot more natural/expected compared to recent technology

It really amazes me how dated some F1 cars look when they are only a few years old. This gives me a grain of hope that perhaps, deep down, there is some style being put into F1 cars alongside the hard facts of making the thing faster.

There's no denying that 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s F1 cars are instantly recognisable as being from their era, from the point of view of the uneducated observer. OK, part of this is down to materials use and surface complexity, but I think a lot of it is just down to what looks hot at the time!
tc9604
 
Joined: 4 Oct 2009
Location: Bristol, UK

Post Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:45 pm

That notch was probably there to create a shedding edge for the FWEP top edge vortex (to prevent the creation of an overloaded and excessively large single vortex), and i suspect that the first shed vortex passed outboard of the tyre while the second one shed itself from the trailing edge of the FWEP and passed inboard of the tyre.
newbie
 
Joined: 29 Sep 2009

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:13 am

So it makes two small vortices instead of a single big one that is what you are saying?
"I was blessed with the ability to understand how cars move," he explains. "You know how in 'The Matrix,' he can see the matrix? When I'm driving, I see the lines."
n smikle
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2008

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:21 am

My understanding is that it allows the flow from the upper wing area to vortex to the front tires to reduce drag. I actually saw a CFD of this at some time ..
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:29 am

i read yesterday of this design, thought it was scarbsf1.com there it is excplained that it energizes the flow on the upper plane.
wesley123
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2008

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:16 am

Those wings were so ridiculously complex. They took years of design evolution,you couldn't possibly design one like that from a blank sheet of paper.

They're a bit like Victorian gothic revival with lots of twiddly bits compared to today's slimmed down post modernist design.
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:28 am

Don't want to use the typical jargon :P but it energizes air flow between the gap of the wing elements. It works for multi element wings i suppose. See how the weir of the notch is at the leading edge of the top element?
Image
It makes no real gain in straight line performance i guess, it's effects are noticeable in yaw.
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ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:51 pm

why would you want to energize the pressure surface of an element which will inevitably have no seperation and good shear? one tends to energize the suction surfaces.
newbie
 
Joined: 29 Sep 2009

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:22 pm

newbie wrote:why would you want to energize the pressure surface of an element which will inevitably have no seperation and good shear? one tends to energize the suction surfaces.


Yeah exactly, the third element feeds off the top of the second one. I didn't mean the top of the wing, sorry about that. I was referring to the flow going under the third element entering from the top of the second.
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:49 pm

ringo wrote:Don't want to use the typical jargon :P but it energizes air flow between the gap of the wing elements. It works for multi element wings i suppose. See how the weir of the notch is at the leading edge of the top element?
It makes no real gain in straight line performance i guess, it's effects are noticeable in yaw.


Thanks for the insight.
When I first started looking at my FW photos again I noticed that many EP " notches"did line up with the upper elements. But then as I looked further I found that this was not the case in most of the pictures I have.

Image

Would the same principle be in effect on this wing even though it doesn't line up with the upper elements?
Thanks
NormalChris
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:11 pm

Wow i just found this in my pictures folder (win 7 likes to forget about some of my pictures) I think it might be whats going on with this design. Sorry Its a small pic

Image
NormalChris
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

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