A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
SimpleMind
0
Joined: 26 Jan 2010, 00:06

Re: A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Post

I have two more questions now. I have been trying to serach the internet for information on which was the first cars to use a diffuser, and which was the first cars to use wingtips generating vortices to seal of the air under the car. It is easy enough to find which was the first car with six wheels or which was the first car with sideskirt, but these two have proven a little trickier to find.

Diffusers for insance, how long have gformula one cars been using them? where they part of the rule changes in 1983 and so every team startet using them back then? Or was it an idea invented by one of the teams to get extra downforce even with the flat bottom rules?

And I suppose same question for the wingtip thing. Was it an invetion by one team or something everyone realized nad implemented as the result of some rule change?

autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Post

Ground effects cars in F1 have NO relevence to road vehicles or engineering development for future transport or vehicle racing.
It is now a fully closed circle with inovation completely non existant.
Changes only occur to meet changes in regulations for speed reduction.
Modern computor driven engineering design and manufacture is sadly stagnant.
Show us just one new and interesting idea!
Just variations on a worn out theme.

SimpleMind
0
Joined: 26 Jan 2010, 00:06

Re: A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Post

This is just a shameless selfserving bump to see if anyone knows the answers to the last two question.

Dima
0
Joined: 08 Mar 2010, 23:25

Re: A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Post

I use the electronic translator, therefore the sense will be sometimes lost. I have rare enough Soviet racing car "Estonia-21", the car was created in 1980 on the basis of LOTUS-81 for participation in a cup of friendship of the people (analogue F1) is the first Soviet car in which the graund-effect was applied, was completed with various engines: from 1600 to 2500 sm3 - cars in various classes (formula 1600, formula vostok, formula 3, drag racing) accordingly acted. With disintegration of the Soviet union to get the documentation on "Estonia-21" it is not obviously possible, can at whom there are specifications or drawings on lotus 78, 79 or 81. The engine I am going to put from AUDI v6 2,8l

flatlander_48
0
Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 07:27
Location: Elmira, Taiwan, Elmira, Taiwan, Elmira

Re: A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Post

manchild wrote: Take a look at headrests as another example - none!
And...

Roll Bar mounted completely to the engine!?!?!?!?!?

flatlander_48
0
Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 07:27
Location: Elmira, Taiwan, Elmira, Taiwan, Elmira

Re: A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Post

manchild wrote:
SimpleMind wrote:Edit: Sorry couldn't get the image link to work but it was the Ensign 179 with the boxy looking inlets/outlets/radiators? in the nose.
yes Ensign N179
Image
Did the air pass through the radiator or were they designed such that the air just passed over?

flatlander_48
0
Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 07:27
Location: Elmira, Taiwan, Elmira, Taiwan, Elmira

Re: A question on historical approaches to ground effect cars

Post

xpensive wrote:Peddling semantics here perhaps, but I still regard the 1970 Chaparral 2J as the first true "ground-effects" car,
however with a different technology altogether. I know someone agrees with me there.
I would agree, but I wouldn't necessarily call it different technologies. Both methods sought to generate downforce by partially evacuating the space under the car. The only difference was in how you created a partially evacuated space.
xpensive wrote:Actually, wear on the sliding skirts on the venturi-cars was not that bad, thanx to cheramic contact-strips.
Not sure about ceramic materials, but one that I do remember was Arguto Board. This was/is an impregated hardwood; easily machinable and long wearing...

One other point about ground effects cars:

At the beginning of the technology, Ferrari was at quite a disadvantage. They were using a flat-12 which limited the width of their tunnels.