Does tyre wear affect top speed?

[xpensive]

Aerodynamics may be the 'God' of F1 and its main downside but the aerodynamic drag created on an F1 car is much to low to reduce top speed on its own.

The aerodynamic drag on an F1 car is almost entirely responsible for defining what the top speed is (there are some frictional losses in the drivetrain and the wheel bearings, but its absolutely negligible in comparison).

Top speed is restricted by gearing and rpm limit.
Aero drag is not the defining force.
So all bow to the god of downforce is incorrect in this case.

Sorry Auto, but this the basic rule, wether we like it or not. Rolling resistance neglected;

Wheel power (Watt) = Aerodynamic resistance (Newton) * Topspeed (meters per second)

[autogyro]

Of course it is but you are only applying it to a set power delivery, that is defined by the ratios of seven gears, the range these gears allow in compromise to any particular circuit and the rev limit of 18,000rpm.
You are not applying it to the power delivery capability of the power train, if it were set up to achieve the highest possible top speed.
In other words, the drag on the car will establish a maximum top speed but only if the car has a top gear ratio for that top speed and a rev limit that will not exceed that top speed. This in no way defines any absolute top speed for the car.

[autogyro]

To try and explain further.
If you were to reduce downforce on the car by over 50 percent, the car will accelerate faster but it will still be limited to the same top speed by the top gear ratio and the 18,000 rpm limit, not by drag.
Interestingly, the lap time will only alter by the number and sharpness of corners, again not because of aero changes directly. In fact if the circuit were a wide banked oval. the lap time would be faster because of the faster acceleration.

[xpensive]

To try and explain further.
If you were to reduce downforce on the car by over 50 percent, the car will accelerate faster but it will still be limited to the same top speed by the top gear ratio and the 18,000 rpm limit, not by drag.
Interestingly, the lap time will only alter by the number and sharpness of corners, again not because of aero changes directly. In fact if the circuit were a wide banked oval. the lap time would be faster because of the faster acceleration.

I wonder if you can ever stick to the topic at hand and listen to physical reasoning, now you're trying to change the subject?

[DaveW]

Apologies for butting in on a good argument, but I think I would leave a first cut on aero & gear settings to a lap time simulator, & let it decide whether the maximum speed would be limited by power or RPM - or the circuit. Having said that, I think I would be slightly happier if a small RPM margin remained at the maximum speed to stop the limiter being invoked every lap & to allow for the possibility of drafting. That wouldn't necessarily imply that the maximum speed would be equal to the terminal (power limited) speed, of course.

[kilcoo316]

If you were to reduce downforce on the car by over 50 percent, the car will accelerate faster but it will still be limited to the same top speed by the top gear ratio and the 18,000 rpm limit, not by drag.

Err, no.

The teams will automatically lengthen the gear ratios to compensate for the reduced drag... unless you think they are inept?


Drag defines top speed. No team sets their gear ratios with the intention of having their car bouncing off the rev limiter at the end of any straight on any given circuit.

[RH1300S]

Isn't the answer to the poster's question very simple?

If the car has it's top speed limited by it's maximum revs, then there will be a reduction in speed 'IF' the rolling radius of the tyre at that speed has become smaller due to wear.

If the car's speed is limited by drag/power then it is unlikely that there will be any change (unless someone cares to work out the effect of the miniscule change in gearing that will let the engine run a tiny bit higher in it's rev range - which may or may not affect the power available depending on the shape of the power curve etc. etc.).

Whether it is the first or second scenario depends entirely on the car's gearing relative to it's theoretical top speed. Always assuming the car isn't tragically under-geared or over-geared.

[autogyro]

So drag sets the top speed?
So do the teams then gear the cars so that 18000 rpm in top gear coincides with this speed?
Dont be daft, this would compromise all the other ratios in the gearbox and reduce the power delivery over the whole speed range.
You cannot just bow down to the god of aero and compromise everything else to it.

Top speed is not caused by any one thing, it is a speed achieved somewhere on the circuit that the car cannot exceed with all the variable performance factors set for the fastest lap time at that particular circuit. All design, set up and driving ability factors play a part in it.
Not just bloody aero.

[Jersey Tom]

Final gearing is set so that you just barely run out of revs (or come close to) at the end of a long straight, yes. Almost by definition this is the best for lap speed, and internal gear ratios can THEN be changed accordingly for different parts of the circuit.

But ultimately, you can play with gearing all you want, a car's top speed is limited by engine power and aero drag. It's a force (or power) balance...

[flynfrog]

So drag sets the top speed?
So do the teams then gear the cars so that 18000 rpm in top gear coincides with this speed?
Dont be daft, this would compromise all the other ratios in the gearbox and reduce the power delivery over the whole speed range.
You cannot just bow down to the god of aero and compromise everything else to it.

Top speed is not caused by any one thing, it is a speed achieved somewhere on the circuit that the car cannot exceed with all the variable performance factors set for the fastest lap time at that particular circuit. All design, set up and driving ability factors play a part in it.
Not just bloody aero.

they set the wing so that it can reach an optimal lap time. They set the gear ratio to rev out at the end of the longest strait. They don't adjust the DF level to match the gearbox aero god wins again thanks for playing though

[kilcoo316]

So drag sets the top speed?

Yes

So do the teams then gear the cars so that 18000 rpm in top gear coincides with this speed?

Yes

Dont be daft,

Your being worse than daft.

this would compromise all the other ratios in the gearbox and reduce the power delivery over the whole speed range.

No sh*t sherlock.

You cannot just bow down to the god of aero and compromise everything else to it.

Top speed is not caused by any one thing, it is a speed achieved somewhere on the circuit that the car cannot exceed with all the variable performance factors set for the fastest lap time at that particular circuit. All design, set up and driving ability factors play a part in it.
Not just bloody aero.

I wish there was an ignore function on this board so I could ignore your utter stupidity.

Unfortunately there isn't, and for some reason I keep replying to your shite/posts (delete as the reader sees fit).

[DaveW]

they set the wing so that it can reach an optimal lap time. They set the gear ratio to rev out at the end of the longest strait. They don't adjust the DF level to match the gearbox aero god wins again thanks for playing though

I think that aero settings & gear selections are not quite as independent as you suggest. I also think there has been some confusion throughout this discussion between "top" speed (at a circuit) & "ultimate" speed (power limited).

Not necessarily related, but interesting nevertheless, the two quickest qualifiers at Barcelona were ranked 20 & 21 through the speed trap, "beaten" only by the Lotuses. The RBR cars were 3 kph slower than the McLarens & 9 kph slower than the Ferraris. F-duct &/or engines, perhaps? They were also 5+ kph slower than the Renaults. Worse L/D, better optimization software, or ....?

[xpensive]

Why is this so hard to fathom, anyway you slice it this will never change as power is force times speed?

Wheel power (Watt) = Aerodynamic resistance (Newton) * Topspeed (meters per second)

[autogyro]

So drag sets the top speed?

Yes

Not for a particular circuit

So do the teams then gear the cars so that 18000 rpm in top gear coincides with this speed?

Yes

No

Dont be daft,

Your being worse than daft.

Pointless

this would compromise all the other ratios in the gearbox and reduce the power delivery over the whole speed range.

No sh*t sherlock.

Hmmm

You cannot just bow down to the god of aero and compromise everything else to it.

Top speed is not caused by any one thing, it is a speed achieved somewhere on the circuit that the car cannot exceed with all the variable performance factors set for the fastest lap time at that particular circuit. All design, set up and driving ability factors play a part in it.
Not just bloody aero.

I wish there was an ignore function on this board so I could ignore your utter stupidity.

Its simple dont bother to comment, your wrong anyway

Unfortunately there isn't, and for some reason I keep replying to your shite/posts (delete as the reader sees fit).

Exactly, you sure like punishment

[autogyro]

Why is this so hard to fathom, anyway you slice it this will never change as power is force times speed?

Wheel power (Watt) = Aerodynamic resistance (Newton) * Topspeed (meters per second)

Yes but you are considering absolute top speed for 'one' mechanical set up.