Adjustable Rear Wing (DRS)

[Ciro Pabón]

Good ideas, White, X. How does it works? I mean, could you show an schematic of a double acting one? You have the experience on that, don't you? Would it fit the cover we see? The "spring" is also logical and could fit into the cover.

I would also like to mention this, among the implications (taken from the same document, page 13):

If the wings (and the cooling) could be set on the straights for minimum drag, it would be possible to reduce the power of the core engine including its exhaust energy recovery contribution, from the ~500KW considered to ~300KW and achieve the same top speed on most circuits. The resulting lap time increase is estimated at 3+secs from today (a little faster than the predicted lap time for 2009/2010 with the aerodynamic changes scheduled), and the reduction in fuel consumption would be in the order of 40%. Combined with the efficiency gains of the proposed power-train for 2011, this would yield an overall fuel consumption reduction exceeding 50%. (This subject to confirmation by on going simulation work.)

So, what about pit stops? Could you imagine an strategy with a wing "up" a lot of time, one that saves you one stop at pits?

NOTE: there is no adaptive cooling AFAIK, so the figures could be exaggerated. Keep in mind that those reductions are compared with a 2007 car.

[WhiteBlue]

The spring is more likely than a double acting cylinder. The single acting hydraulic cylinder would be sized to overcome the spring force which would pull the flap down. This spring force would not need to be very big. Just big enough to overcome any additional friction in the mechanism. The aerodynamic force will always tend to lower the flap into the normal position. In this case the valve would have to be designed to drain the cylinder to tank in the normal position. If the solenoid goes off voltage the valve would also be returned to normal by a spring. So any failure of the activation system would mean the system is returned to flap down by spring force.

[horse]

This is a good point actually -> You can't "lock" the flap open or I don't see a way of returning the flap automatically. You must always be doing work with the actuator so that if it breaks the flap will return to station due to the drag.

Do you see what I mean. If you did "Open Flap" then "Lock Something" you risk not being able to open the lock and release the wing.

[Ciro Pabón]

Yeah, I see it. Thanks, horse.

And what about the fuel strategy? (sorry for insisting).

[horse]

and the reduction in fuel consumption would be in the order of 40%. Combined with the efficiency gains of the proposed power-train for 2011, this would yield an overall fuel consumption reduction exceeding 50%. (This subject to confirmation by on going simulation work.)

So, what about pit stops? Could you imagine an strategy with a wing "up" a lot of time, one that saves you one stop at pits?

Are you assuming that we are back into racing with refuelling? I think given the amount of restriction there is on using this system, it will be difficult to get a fuel advantage over your competitors, particularly with no refuelling.

You could, in theory, sit within 1s of a car to make sure you can open the flap every lap. Then you might be able to save some fuel over the car you were following which could be used to turn up the engine towards the end of the race. The issue with that is that I assume there will be a greater strain on the engine in maintaining the 1s gap given the dirty air from the car in front.

[WhiteBlue]

You could, in theory, sit within 1s of a car to make sure you can open the flap every lap. Then you might be able to save some fuel over the car you were following which could be used to turn up the engine towards the end of the race. The issue with that is that I assume there will be a greater strain on the engine in maintaining the 1s gap given the dirty air from the car in front.

Not to mention rear tyre wear. They would be shot very quickly indeed due to the loss of downforce.

[Ciro Pabón]

No, I'm assuming you could diminish a bit the tyre wear, horse, if you really are running much lighter in fuel. Howevever, yes, the fuel savings probably don't compensate the added wear mentioned by WB. Anyway, the number of tyre changes is mandated by regulations, isn't it? Is there any room in that? (let's say, you could save 30% of gas maximum, if you're "towed" the whole race).

However, the ability to save fuel if you keep your car in second place and close to the first, could give you some advantage in the end (if you took the gamble of loading less gas than the car in front, because the rear wing utilization will allow you to save gas during the whole race). This could give a little twist to strategies (if you ask the cars to keep "together" the whole race, how much weight can save the second one?).

[WhiteBlue]

No, I'm assuming you could diminish a bit the tyre wear, horse, if you really are running much lighter in fuel. Howevever, yes, the fuel savings probably don't compensate the added wear mentioned by WB. Anyway, the number of tyre changes is mandated by regulations, isn't it? Is there any room in that?

In a dry race both tyre specifications have to be run at least one time, but PDLR reckons we will see 2-3 tyre stops usually this year. Reason is the accelerated wear of the rear tyres that has been designed into the Pirellis.

Btw Weber is just now on a long run with superb consistency. The RB7 may be the car with the most careful usage of tyres yet.

[horse]

Not to mention rear tyre wear. They would be shot very quickly indeed due to the loss of downforce.

Quite.

Going back to the fail safe issue, there are situations where returning the flap to station on failure could cause an accident, such as when you have three cars in a train and cars 2 and 3 open their flaps to overtake. If the flap on 2 fails whilst 3 is slipstreaming it then 2 will decelerate quickly causing 3 to do a Webber flop.

[xpensive]

Good ideas, White, X. How does it works? I mean, could you show an schematic of a double acting one? You have the experience on that, don't you? Would it fit the cover we see? The "spring" is also logical and could fit into the cover.
...

A 10 Bar single-acting pneumatic cylinder with integrated return-spring would be kinda cute, don't you think Ciro?

http://www.boschrexroth.com/pneumatics- ... geID=p8738

But I agree that hydraulics would perhaps make more sense in that position afterall.

[Ciro Pabón]

I haven't thought of the safety issue, horse, specially if the intention of the gadget is to have cars close together at 300 kph on straights. I'm still wondering if it can help you to tow a car with less fuel, as a team strategy.

X, I don't think pneumatics could work well, aren't they more "springy"?

[King Six]

Not really sure where to put this, I guess it goes here.

Some teams are running rear wings with support pylons running down the middle, others are using the endplates for support with all the mechanisms/wires etc.. for the adjustable rear wing in there.

It would seem like having it all in the endplates would make the most sense, cleaner airflow and all that. McLaren and Ferrari have pylons. Red Bull and most other teams don't.

What say you, F1technical? To Pylon or not To Pylon





Or wait, is that what this whole thread is about?

[xpensive]

I haven't thought of the safety issue, horse, specially if the intention of the gadget is to have cars close together at 300 kph on straights. I'm still wondering if it can help you to tow a car with less fuel, as a team strategy.

X, I don't think pneumatics could work well, aren't they more "springy"?

"Springy", well I don't think you would like to try a car with pneumatic steering on the track Ciro, but for rapid movement from one end-position to another, with limited resistance of course, pneumatics is superior to hydraulics.

Moving a flap from full downforce position to another fixed position should be such an application, the only problem, as certain esteemed members have pointed out, is that an F1 car does not typically have compressed air readily available. Unless you could hook it up to the pneumatic valve-train of course, but that's a looong shot...

[segedunum]

Gary Anderson came up with an idea that I thought was intriguing.

They should have the slot gap at 50mm by default and then it would be up to the driver to adjust the trim in corners and under braking. The driver then wouldn't have to push an additional button down the straight and safety-wise you'd have drivers getting used to the default level of downforce that they have, which they can then adjust.

This would promote some more serious driver skill and fuel efficiency would also be better for the drivers who are good enough to live without more downforce.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, actually regulations are pretty specific:

3.18.1 The incidence of the rearmost and uppermost closed section described in Article 3.10.2 may be varied whilst the car is in motion provided:

...

- The design is such that failure of the system will result in the uppermost closed section returning to the normal high incidence position.
- Any alteration of the incidence of the uppermost closed section may only be commanded by direct driver input and controlled using the control electronics specified in Article 8.2.
3.18.2 The adjustable bodywork may be activated by the driver at any time prior to the start of the race and, for the sole purpose of improving overtaking opportunities during the race, after the driver has completed a minimum of two laps after the race start or following a safety car period.
The driver may only activate the adjustable bodywork in the race when he has been notified via the control electronics (see Article 8.2) that it is enabled. It will only be enabled if the driver is less than one second behind another at any of the pre-determined positions around each circuit. The system will be disabled by the control electronics the first time the driver uses the brakes after he has activated the system.
The FIA may, after consulting all competitors, adjust the above time proximity in order to ensure the stated purpose of the adjustable bodywork is met.