Adjustable Rear Wing (DRS)

[kalinka]

I think what marekk means is : is there a regulation for a period of time for the actuator in which it must reach it's normal position, or the teams can play with that. Normally you want it to go to low DF position ad fast as it can, to maximise low DF advantage, but what's the case with other way ?
EDIT : I don't think delaying the high DF position would do any advantage. Normally if you hit the brakes at the end of the straight, you want all the DF to be avaliable to help breaking...

[marekk]

I think what marekk means is : is there a regulation for a period of time for the actuator in which it must reach it's normal position, or the teams can play with that. Normally you want it to go to low DF position ad fast as it can, to maximise low DF advantage, but what's the case with other way ?
EDIT : I don't think delaying the high DF position would do any advantage. Normally if you hit the brakes at the end of the straight, you want all the DF to be avaliable to help breaking...

I meant period of time from closed (normal) to open position.
The effect of opening the gap is quite powerfull - Anthony Davidson said it's worth more then 15 km/h plus on max speed, which is roughly equivalent to 100 kW more power.
On the straight you want it to open as soon as possible, but accelerating from the apex of the corner probably not.

[marekk]

As the drivers are free to use DRS at will during qualy, and i've read reports RB's are using it mid corners during tests, are there any regulations of DRS activating rate ?.
Can we have one more dial on the steering wheel to change this rate from one corner to another, just as we have for diff and brakes ?
Any laptime to gain with this ?

[volarchico]

...The effect of opening the gap is quite powerfull - Anthony Davidson said it's worth more then 15 km/h plus on max speed, which is roughly equivalent to 100 kW more power. ...

Wow, if this is true, it's much more efficient at shedding drag than the f-duct, which only gained 3-5 km/hr IIRC.

[raymondu999]

It does. But it also sheds more downforce. Which kinda makes me wonder if 130R, Eau Rouge, Curva Grande etc can be flat out with the DRS activated. It was with the F-duct. And remember that there is no longer a DDD

[horse]

A quick aside: DRS is Drag Reduction System. I was wondering for a while.

Regarding the "trimming" of the rear wing, I don't see anything in the regulations which would not permit this for qualifying. I would say it would be challenging for the driver to do, but certainly has potential gains.

During the race, I see no benefit, as the activation zone is on a straight, thus "off" and "on" are the preferred settings for the wing.

[Intego]

I'd have believed it better if you went for a percentage loss. Assuming say maybe 50% loss, then it's (with your arbitrary figures) 75 vs 90 units

Why would the MCL lose DF when a car is behind?
The figures would work like this: MCL 150, RB 200, loses 20 % when behind a car, then it would be MCL 150, RB 160, wouldn't it? Or do I get sth wrong?

[raymondu999]

We're talking if. in a switch-case scenario. (Pardon the programming term)

So, (theoretical figures)
McL - 150 arbitrary units
RB - 200 arbitrary units
loss of downforce = 30%

IF McL was behind = 105 downforce
IF RB was behind = 140 downforce

So in the case of 105 vs 200 downforce, the McL wouldn't be able to keep up through the corner.
In the case of 140 vs 150 downforce, the RB could stick with the McL.

Having said that, the downforce loss would be different behind each individual car, and these are all theoretical, arbitrary units.

[Intego]

Ok, thanks. I took it as if both would use DF.

[Richard]

So lets get this straight ...

A car with better downforce will be closer to the slower car in front, than the other way around?

Do bears poop in woods?

...

Wouldn't the two fastest cars in a race be much closer than 200v150, ie within a few percent, say 200v198? These machines are so closely matched, a 0.1 gap between pole and second is considered emphatic.

[raymondu999]

SHEESH!! It's theoretical!! It's not a blow-by-blow realistic thing!!

[mith]

Lets go further with that speculations (but mods may consider splitting it to new thread)

Last year when car could keep just behind another car in the turn that other car had usually higher speed at the straight (not saying that it's a rule but usually lower df means lower drag, so it's 'helpful' for achieving higher top speed) so it could run away. We saw it happen in few races. But now, with the ARW, this could be really beneficial for car with higher df, as it might be able to follow closely in the turn and just after that activate wing and pass following car.

I wonder, how would look Alonso and Petrov fight if Alonso had ARW.

[Mandrake]

Last year when car could keep just behind another car in the turn that other car had usually higher speed at the straight (not saying that it's a rule but usually lower df means lower drag, so it's 'helpful' for achieving higher top speed) so it could run away. We saw it happen in few races. But now, with the ARW, this could be really beneficial for car with higher df, as it might be able to follow closely in the turn and just after that activate wing and pass following car.

This is exactly what Ray and me have been discussing

[bot6]

When following another car, most of the lost downforce is on the front wing. This comes from the air at the front of the car being thrown up by the rear wing and diffuser of the car in front. This is why when they changed the rules, they made giant front wings to reduce this effect in order to help overtaking.

So that means the front wing itself remains relatively useless as long as the car at the back remains in the wake of the other one. It is the floor, diffuser and rear wing which will provide the downforce.

What is interesting is what effect the ARW will have on the balance of the car. If downforce is lost on the front wing because of the car in front, and it is lost on the rear wing because of the use of the ARW, will it even out the balance of the car?
That seems relatively unimportant as long as the car goes straight, but once it "steps to the side" to overtake suddenly the front wing comes back into play... And if the ARW is open, this will completely change the behavior of the car.

So really, the floor and diffuser are the only consistent downforce providers during the overtaking maneuver, so the car which has the best underbody will have a much easier time...

[shamikaze]

That seems relatively unimportant as long as the car goes straight, but once it "steps to the side" to overtake suddenly the front wing comes back into play... And if the ARW is open, this will completely change the behavior of the car.

So really, the floor and diffuser are the only consistent downforce providers during the overtaking maneuver, so the car which has the best underbody will have a much easier time...

Given the overall consensus/conception that the RB has the higher DF, would we a Vettel shaped arrow again piercing other cars much like he almost skewered button in Spa ? As could be seen from the video at the time, the FW was balacing left and right when he came out of Button's wake making him loose control. Taking the probable same FW behaviour, combined with the probably engaged ARW, how would this then turn out this year ? A full side-on slide ?