Alonso - Ferrari - Renault...

[richard_leeds]

doh! this is turning into yet another Lewis thread ...

[Ray]

And what of the FIA's BS manipulation of the Spa results when they handed a clear Lewis victory to Massa who did not lead even 1 second of the race?

All of this is pure speculation... We all know Massa was leading in singapore and Lewis was right behind him, what we dont know is who had more fuel and who was had the better tire strategy.

Massa had a great year last year, against a great teammate, and great competitors, more than can be said for Alonso's 2xWDC's when he didnt have to fight his own teammate.

Massa is a world class F1 driver and no amount of Flav's race fixing antics can take that away from him, but Lewis crossed the finish line leading the race more times than Massa did and that in my book makes him the World champ.

For once I agree 100%. Massa was clearly the class of the field last year when it came to competition within his team and against others, but Lewis capitalized and won a deserving championship. Which is why Formula should award at least 12 points to the winner instead of 10. A champion trounces the field.

Alonso will have a huge challenge come his way next year providing Massa is at 100% health, and he couldn't have moved to a better team at a better time. Ferrari and McLaren are in a duel for the championship right now, even if it isn't for the top spot. With Lewis and possibly Kimi as his teammate and Massa paired with Alonso the racing next year should be awesome. Alonso may be a bit of a whiner sometimes, and he may be a ruthless teammate but when push comes to shove he drives like nobody else. I welcome the change and look forward to next season.

[tarzoon]

Is it my perception or is everyone looking into the past? Last year Massa lost for Hamilton in the last turn, and nothing will change that ever. End of story.

Now the future:

It's a big thing when you're settled in a team, having a car developed for you, having a 7xWDC behind you, and suddenly the worst teammate one could wish for is joining in. A 2xWDC that is as fast as he is competitive and commited.

[mx_tifoso]

Anyone else think that FErrari are stupid for paying Alonso so much? They seemingly were outbidding themselves... 25M Euros a year? if the reports can be believed...

...In that position you would think that Ferrari were in the higher ground in the negotiations, they surely could have got a better deal.

Well Ferrari did say that with the economy the way it is driver salaries have had to decrease, and that all the reports of huge amounts given to Alonso are too high. But then again most of what they say is a load of BS.

[ISLAMATRON]

Anyone else think that FErrari are stupid for paying Alonso so much? They seemingly were outbidding themselves... 25M Euros a year? if the reports can be believed...

...In that position you would think that Ferrari were in the higher ground in the negotiations, they surely could have got a better deal.

Well Ferrari did say that with the economy the way it is driver salaries have had to decrease, and that all the reports of huge amounts given to Alonso are too high. But then again most of what they say is a load of BS.

So they pay Kimi over $45M to Not drive for them(i guess that was decreasing his usual $50 mil paycheck)... If I was a Santander shareholder I'd be knocking down the doors right now.

[Ray]

Is it my perception or is everyone looking into the past? Last year Massa lost for Hamilton in the last turn, and nothing will change that ever. End of story.

Now the future:

It's a big thing when you're settled in a team, having a car developed for you, having a 7xWDC behind you, and suddenly the worst teammate one could wish for is joining in. A 2xWDC that is as fast as he is competitive and commited.

I don't think anyone is looking into the past so much as recognizing that Massa has been a great driver, had a devistatingly fast teammate in both Kimi and Michael, held his own with Michael and soundly beating Kimi last year. We are just pointing out that Massa is a match for Alonso and it'll be interesting to see how fast he is compared to him and how he will be after his recovery. I really like Alonso for his talent in the car, but I sincerely believe he has absolutely nothing to worry about in Alonso being his teammate. As far as spped goes.

[Ray]

Anyone else think that FErrari are stupid for paying Alonso so much? They seemingly were outbidding themselves... 25M Euros a year? if the reports can be believed...

...In that position you would think that Ferrari were in the higher ground in the negotiations, they surely could have got a better deal.

Well Ferrari did say that with the economy the way it is driver salaries have had to decrease, and that all the reports of huge amounts given to Alonso are too high. But then again most of what they say is a load of BS.

So they pay Kimi over $45M to Not drive for them(i guess that was decreasing his usual $50 mil paycheck)... If I was a Santander shareholder I'd be knocking down the doors right now.

I'd be right along side you. It's bullshit to pay someone that much not to drive for you and then spend millions on another driver. The paychecks they get are ridiculous, but only we can stop them from getting that much by not watching or purchasing sponsors products.

[ISLAMATRON]

I never even seen a Santander bank around here , and I avoid all banks as much as possible anyway, but its not their money that they are spending so they are fast and loose with it.

I know 1 thing for damn sure, none of my money is going towards any of that sillyness.

[tarzoon]

I really like Alonso for his talent in the car, but I sincerely believe he has absolutely nothing to worry about in Alonso being his teammate. As far as spped goes.

I honestly hope you are right.

edit: But just in case, what costed Massa his title wasn't Alonso, but a hose and some funny traffic lights in the pit stops, plus his inability to drive with rain.

[nipo]

plus his inability to drive with rain.

Spot on.

I like Felipe a lot and he is fast and committed and all that, but when the rain comes, he struggles, whereas Kimi, Lewis and FA shine. Vettel as well. I have always thought Felipe didn't have the makings of a champion because of that, and fate was he lost last year's WDC by 1 point.

But make no mistakes. I strongly feel that Alonso is getting #1 status next year and if we see Massa somewhat struggling overall compared to Alonso I won't attribute all of that to driver ability.

[Raptor22]

I have no problems with Massa's comments and neither should Lewis, Alonso, Kimi and anyone really. It just goes to show how badly he wanted that title and there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously we know that things could have changed and perhaps neither of them would have been champion (it was a possibility with Kubica, wasn't it?) We won't know. Did Piquet's action affect his chances? Clearly yes. Would he have been champion for sure? We'll never know.

I agree. I think Lewis response is a little defensive. The Singaporegate swung the momentum toward Lewis but it was not a natural event caused by McLaren or Ferrari.It was the cheating of Renault that swung that momentum.
Massa has a right to feel aggrieved. If this had been discovered last year then perhaps things would be different.

I still think Alonso should be stripped of that win. It's not his,but Rosberg's.Lewis will win the WDC by a larger margin still so I feel he is the rightful champion.
However Massa could still sue for loss of earnings...

[sunny1304]

plus his inability to drive with rain.

Spot on.

I like Felipe a lot and he is fast and committed and all that, but when the rain comes, he struggles, whereas Kimi, Lewis and FA shine. Vettel as well. I have always thought Felipe didn't have the makings of a champion because of that, and fate was he lost last year's WDC by 1 point.

But make no mistakes. I strongly feel that Alonso is getting #1 status next year and if we see Massa somewhat struggling overall compared to Alonso I won't attribute all of that to driver ability.

i cant see kimi struggle in rain when he was in Mclaren....Its the f2007, f2008 and f60 that dont respond well in rain for whoever drives them.

[ISLAMATRON]

I agree. I think Lewis response is a little defensive. The Singaporegate swung the momentum toward Lewis but it was not a natural event caused by McLaren or Ferrari.It was the cheating of Renault that swung that momentum.
Massa has a right to feel aggrieved. If this had been discovered last year then perhaps things would be different.

I still think Alonso should be stripped of that win. It's not his,but Rosberg's.Lewis will win the WDC by a larger margin still so I feel he is the rightful champion.
However Massa could still sue for loss of earnings...

Rosberg's???? You mean the same Rosberg that was in tenth place right before Flav mashed the "crash now button"? Ros berg only finished in second because of the incompetence of the Singapore stewards. Rosberg was in that position for the same reason Alonso was in his position.

Massa was in seemingly in control of that race, and Lewis was right behind him.... but definitely not Rosberg.

Alonso should definitely have a win removed from his win total.

[segedunum]

Interesting opinionated thread and interesting points.

Now both Domenicali and di Montezemolo is mentioning FA being "Latin". Interesting.

It is interesting, and also worrying if you're a Ferrari fan and remember life before Schumacher, Brawn and Todt. It smacks of a return to the bad old days when a person gained political traction within the Ferrari organisation because of his nationality, preferably being Italian or as close as possible. All the work that Todt, Brawn and others did to undo that silliness seems to be unravelling pretty quickly. You've then got Schumacher standing on the pit wall like a spare part with no clear job title, no clear job description, interfering with race strategies and tactics, his closeness to Massa and making comments about his involvement in driver signings. I can see Alonso giving him the cold shoulder as Raikkonen did.

You've then got the bizarre scenario where Ferrari, and Alonso's backers, have to pay Raikkonen millions to potentially take race wins off them next year in order to get Alonso in that really, really needed to be spent elsewhere on development. There's a lot of competitive teams around now, not just McLaren, and no one can afford that.

I can't say it looks promising to be honest.

Monte also revealed the reason Kimi was sacked - he was keeping everything inside and wasn't communicating very well (if at all).

Kimi wasn't sacked. He had a contract for next year, everyone expected Alonso to go in 2011, including himself, and it looks as though he decided eventually that a clean break was preferable and his chances would be better elsewhere. I see no reason why this couldn't have been announced at Monza otherwise.

I think his failings last year were down to Raikkonen not being involved enough with the initial design of the car and not having a shout at the team as to what he wanted the car to do early on. By the time he started racing it was all too late - couldn't get the tyres up to temperature early on, poor pace in qualifying and setting fastest laps late on. If you set ten fastest laps in a season and don't win a proportion of the races then there's something else wrong. Those things are ridiculously complex to work out with these cars.

However, the overriding concern for Ferrari was that they got a new title sponsor nailed down for the next few years, as all the teams seem to be desperate to do right now in the current economic climate. That sponsor is Santander and they came as a package with Alonso. Whatever Raikkonen's performances were last year that was the real objective.

I wonder if Ferrari stopping dev of F60 and moving on to next year's car was one of FA's "requirements" to move to Ferrari. After all, it's very unusual for Ferrari to pull the plug like this.

It's a bad decision. Although no refuelling will change the characteristics of the car, in terms of aerodynamics, mechanicals etc. the regulations are all the same, so what's good about this year's car can be carried over to next year's. Crucially, with the lack of testing you also want a solid, proven testbed.

Maybe it's personal, but I just have a problem with FA's behavior and I am at least "cautious" about the situation within the Ferrari garage next season.

I think you have reason. Lots of people are already counting not only Alonso's race wins but the number of titles he'll win. All I can see is a powder-keg of political intrigue waiting to go off. They key word is 'Latin'.

[vall]

Kimi wasn't sacked. He had a contract for next year, everyone expected Alonso to go in 2011, including himself, and it looks as though he decided eventually that a clean break was preferable and his chances would be better elsewhere. I see no reason why this couldn't have been announced at Monza otherwise.

I just had this thought. Could it be that the hurry to get Alonso already in 2010 and not as everyone expected in 2011 may be related to some Ferrari knowledge about the underground F1 politics? Merc buying BGP will be looking for strong driver. With Renault future doubt and likely slow car again if they stay, if a fast car is already available in 2010 Alonso may decide to jump to Merc?