Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

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Post Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:23 am

Not a surgeon, but one of my mistresses is a surgery-nurse and she never seen anything like it outside the morgue.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:14 pm

Maybe she could take you on a tour to an Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Dept in a hospital, and there you might be able to see quite a lot worse than that. And yes, what caused the injury may affect the way you stitch up, as it has a lot to do with how much tissue you have left to work with. Now, if we had a close up picture of Felipe right after the surgery and before the stitching as well as a detailed evaluation of the amount and quality of soft tissue present at the site, we would be able to agree with more certainty whether they did a good or a bad job. As we dont't...
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
andartop
 
Joined: 8 Jun 2008
Location: London, UK

Post Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:46 pm

I guess it depends on what standards you are accustomed to, but that looks like the Magyarians worked with a staple-gun that particular Sunday if you ask me.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:13 pm

I was going to say that right after the accident he kinda resembled Sloth from the Goonies being swelled up and everything.
Ray
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Location: Atlanta

Post Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:08 pm

Xpensive, you seem to be a bit harsh on the Hungarian surgeons. Would you be so kind as to provide us with some details about the severity of Massa's injury which will help the rest of us understand exactly why you are so certain they did a sloppy job - other than your personal view that "it doesn't look very nice" at those pictures?

a) If the wound edges were ragged or if they had a clean edge?
b) If the wound was grossly contaminated with foreign particles and obviously dead tissue?
c) If the edge of the laceration was steeply bevelled or perpendicular?
d) If the two lacerations were closely parallel or there was a bridge of tissue between them that had to be excised?
e) If the wound happened to follow the skin lines at all?
f) If the skin edges could be pulled together without any tension? With moderate tension? Or they had to be undermined and fat stitches inserted? And if that still wasn't enough whether Felipe's condition allowed for a graft at that time?

Should I go on?

All these details, and more, can have an impact on the quality of the scarring. As we don't know, we might as well not start pointing fingers here and there.

It is quite common practice to reassure the patient that the appearance will improve in time and often there is a waiting time of about a year before the patient is referred for revision of the scars, sometimes even more.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
andartop
 
Joined: 8 Jun 2008
Location: London, UK

Post Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:40 pm

andartop wrote:It is quite common practice to reassure the patient that the appearance will improve in time and often there is a waiting time of about a year before the patient is referred for revision of the scars, sometimes even more.


Agree with you.

I'm not a surgeon - far from it! - but I would guess that as long as the bone is properly reconstructed and the swelling disappears, it's relatively easy for a plastic surgeon to remove a scar.

What's the big deal anyway? Lauda had (and still has) a nastier scar. Mick Doohan has legs that look like they've been put together by a very drunk Ethiopian blacksmith (no offense intended).

Maybe the Brazillian TV does a reality show about Massa's plastic surgery with dr. Hollywood.
tarzoon
 
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: White and blue football club

Post Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:17 pm

I had mentioned this in this thread before, but there is only a 1 page memory :)

Massa's injury was an impact injury, more than a cut. The skin would have been broken open, like a boxers. The area where he was cut, has little if any meat behind it, and no fat, especially for someone in the shape of an F1 driver.

When you get a deep cut, the flesh is used to stitch in to. As well, when someone has surgery, the cut is made with a surgical instrument, and is easier to close in a sterile environment, immediately after surgery is complete.

Injury scars, typically, do not look very good after they are fixed. There is also little that can be done, aside from therapeutic ultrasound, which helps align the cells in a scar, so it grows and heals evenly. These kinds of wounds heal from the bottom out, so for a while the scar makes the deep flesh connected to the outer flesh. This takes a long time to normalize, so you can "move the flesh" around the bone like normal).

My arm for example, when it was cut, the bicep part of the cut needed to be stitched on the 'outside'. Imagine the inside stitch of your jeans compared to the outside stitch. Massa's injury would have required the inside style of stitch, otherwise the wound would start to open like a way-too-tight button up shirt on a fat guy.

Also, when someone has a serious eye injury like Massa, they need to open up the cut area even more. When saving an eye, you are not thinking abut scars. Much like when they were trying to save my arm and keep it from being lopped off, the scarring is a secondary issue for consideration.

Here is a good example of before and after of an "outside stitch".

Hurts just posting this stuff :)

Before

Image

After

Image
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:47 am

Good Lord, can't even remember how this discussion began? :shock:
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:27 pm

xpensive wrote:Good Lord, can't even remember how this discussion began? :shock:


Something to do with racing cars I think. Though why anyone would start a thread about cars on this forum (now renamed "Maxillofacial Today") is beyond me.

ps - are any of these surgical posts from a surgical professional?
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:42 pm

xpensive wrote:Good Lord, can't even remember how this discussion began? :shock:


Well, that's funny because it was actually you who started it, attacking for no reason the Hungarian doctors who may have saved the man's life, talking about poor standards without a clue what exactly they had to deal with and "joking" about Frankenstein and Transylvania.

Back on topic, Felipe cleared to return behind the wheel of an F1 car: http://www.f1technical.net/news/13546

That's good news. Let's see if he'll be up to speed straight away!
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
andartop
 
Joined: 8 Jun 2008
Location: London, UK

Post Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:50 pm

I did nothing of the kind! :lol:
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:20 pm

richard_leeds wrote:
xpensive wrote:Good Lord, can't even remember how this discussion began? :shock:


Something to do with racing cars I think. Though why anyone would start a thread about cars on this forum (now renamed "Maxillofacial Today") is beyond me.

ps - are any of these surgical posts from a surgical professional?



All though I am not a surgeon, doctor, or nurse, all the information I posted about scarring I learned from surgeons, and to a greater extent, from my physiotherapist who discussed the healing process over the 6 months of treatment. When you have a serious cut, you research scarring, and discuss the wound with all kinds of medical and surgical professionals.

You learn.

Knowledge and experience is all that is needed to understand scarring, not a license to perform surgery. If anything surgeons see less scarring than any other doctors. They close it, and walk away. They fix, not heal.

BTW -This is an F1 forum, and that includes, cars, drivers, teams, injuries, and every other peripheral item to the sport. Nitpicking about inapplicable semantics has nothing to do with anything. There is a specific forum, to do with JUST the cars for those with a very narrow focus.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:43 am

Were you bitten by a hippo? That's some nasty tears you got there.
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:34 pm

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/10/ ... t-fiorano/

"Everything went well, I'm in good shape physically, it felt as if the incident on July 25 had never happened. I had no problems with my sight and I'm ready to do not one but two races in a row."

I bet he will drive in the Abu Dhabi.
hasalard
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2009

Post Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:12 pm

Here are some extra pictures of Felipe Massa's F2007 test at Fiorano

http://cnnturk.com/2009/spor/formula1/1 ... index.html

I think we will see exactly "the same bastard" at next year's first GP :)
No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings. - William Blake
Two3
 
Joined: 21 Sep 2008

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