gibells wrote:Politics turned their second car (the SLR) into something completely opposite in concept and execution to their way of thinking. I am glad that they are going down their own path.

Indeed the SLR was a bloated Mercedes, built by McLaren under protest!

with no care as to what happens if orange Mercs are running next year I will be tempted to cheer for them.

Just how bound are Mercedes after two years anyway? Isn’t that when the current agreement runs out and they are free? And why would they sell or divest any equity stake they have in Mac unless it is for fair market value? It is a stock like any other.

I see MB holding all the cards. I can see there being some motivation for MB if Mac offered to get out before the two years remaining on the current deal expires but that seems to be the only card that Mac holds and they can’t play it unless they have a new engine in the wings. Surely the Ford/Peugeot days of 93/94 can’t have left their memory that fast.

Orange Macs and silver Brawns do seem to be on the cards though. I also foresee Mac beating Brawn in 2010 but that is another matter.

And if Mac can get the entire BMW plant for a price, claim to the FIA that they are building a “new engine” from scratch as a “new manufacturer” whereby they get to recast the BMW block to fit their chassis and gearbox while making a few other tweaks ala Cosworth’s FIA dispensation, they could do it before 2010 easily since they are 99% of the way there with the present BMW as a basis.

Only this could induce MB to want to get out before the current deal expires because of MB branding clauses in the existing Mac/MB agreement that reserves the Mac to be the primary, exclusive and most prominent MB title sponsored car.

I should note that all of this would be impossible without the FIA freeze as the factory teams enjoyed a great advantage over the customer teams both in having the latest spec engine and not having to pay for them.

Was Whitmarsh’s entreaties to the rest of the FOTA teams to allow Qadback the 14th spot sincere because they would be using Ferrari power? And Martin’s carefully worded denial in this article Clicky precludes nothing. It seems to permit a world of possibilities for the current BMW engine resources/facilities. As a matter of fact simple rebranding without any modification or alterations to the BMW engine architecture is within the scope of Martin Whitmarsh’s non-denial denial.

As to MB’s equity stake in Mac, well it has a fair market value, generates a proportionate share of Mac profits and MB can sell it to whomever they wish unless Mac has a “right to first refusal”. They could discount it back to Mac (for a figure far more than zero) as an inducement to divorce. Or they could just sit on the shares and collect their proceeds. What is the rush?

The greatest irony is that Max Mosley's nutty engine freeze could help make Ron Dennis a modern day Enzo Ferrari.

gcdugas wrote:And if Mac can get the entire BMW plant for a price, claim to the FIA that they are building a “new engine” from scratch as a “new manufacturer” whereby they get to recast the BMW block to fit their chassis and gearbox while making a few other tweaks ala Cosworth’s FIA dispensation, they could do it before 2010 easily since they are 99% of the way there with the present BMW as a basis.

There is no such thing as a BMW engine plant. The nearest such thing is the Landshut facility where BMW do their high performance light alloy casting.



The F1 blocks and the M6 are made there as well. That plant is an integral part of their high perfomance manufacturing development. They do a bunch of things in Landshut. Among other things they do the Rolls Royce bodies there IMO. No way they will sell something from Landshut. The rumor was that some personnel and know how from the Munich F1 engine development department from Motorsport GmbH might be in a package.

The main issue between Mclaren and Merc is the conflicting strategy in road cars. This will automatically lead to massive branding and marketing conflicts which necessitates the split.

Brawn is just an opportunity which can be exploited to accelerate the split. With the current asking price I doubt that the parties will come to a mutual acceptable solution that would stand up to the scrutiny of the the capital and labor supervisory board members.

Using the Abu Dhabi's Aabar Investments company (biggest Merc shareholder) as a vehicle Merc can legally do their Brawn deal and put the re branding on the back burner until McLaren gets a bit more realistical.

The details of the cooperation treaty between Merc and McLaren are secret. So speculating about the options in connection with the sale of the 40% share of Merc in McLaren is just that- speculation. There should be some motivation for McLaren to accelerate the switch and the transfer of shares. The new sports car venture is going to take investment and it is a risky move from several points of view. You definitely do not want an unfriendly main share holder involved in it. I'm not sure that McLaren has a preferred right to buy the Merc owned shares back. Passing those shares to another party outside the current shareholders (Dennis 15%/Mansour 15%/Mumtalakat 30%) could seriously upset the Scuderia plan.

I agree, BMW is engines! Selling anything BMW is not an option.

Joe Saward, noted F1 journo, and a person close to the rumormill blogged thisClicky complete with preliminary numbers.

This story is written as if its Mercedes giving Mclaren the "vote of confedence" that a football manager gets just before he gets the sack after the next match. Ill give it a monthe or so before McLaren take over a smaller engine company such as Zytek or start to build ther own full on engine facility for its F1 and Automotive buisness as well.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79991

gcdugas wrote:Joe Saward, noted F1 journo, and a person close to the rumormill blogged thisClicky complete with preliminary numbers.

add to that this by James Allen..


Mercedes-Brawn, in silver, in 2010..? and Mobil following the Silver Arrows.. a double whammy for McLaren!

It sounds like the only thing stopping all this happening is McLaren's 40% buyback from Merc, plus any clauses in McLaren's sponsorship contracts citing Mercedes as a major technical partner.
Mercedes may being liable for lost earnings by forcing McLaren's breaches of contract(s) by leaving their partnership early.. probably explains all the Merc lawyers seen around the place lately.

We may just end up with Button running around in Silver Arrows in 2010, but oddly enough, not Lewis (& McLaren)!

Orange McLarens FTW.



And Scuderia McLaren sounds awful; they're British for goodness sakes!

With those black wings, please! I'd love orange. But vodafome wouldn't. Realistically white + red is the answer.

Pandamasque wrote:With those black wings, please! I'd love orange. But vodafome wouldn't. Realistically white + red is the answer.

Beautiful mx!

Vodafone won't be around forever, must be other sponsors suitable, Gulf perhaps? Oil companies are loaded these days.

That would do nicely for the basic color.

This is how the current car would roughly look in orange chrome.

Not bad, but perhaps the tone is a little too Copperish?

I thought I read that McLaren will stick with Silver for the 2 years until they are autonomous. So I expect Brawns to be Silver/Luminous Yellow/Black and McLaren to be Silver/Red/Black.