Well, here's to further collapse of F1. A link ..
http://f1update.com/details/view/324960 ... s_tomorrow

On the plus side that means that Sauber is back in.

No facts there.

I don't think it's that much of a loss to be honest, if (if being the most important word there) they do go. I won't be surprised if they do go, rumours have been abound of their departure for months.

Sauber staying in is more important in my opinion.

Important fact is that it is first team to pull put of new Concorde. I wonder what that contract really worth.

Good news for Sauber.

It was inevitable really Toyota has never had a podium - it just shows that cash isnt everything.

How is this a loss or contributing to the collapse of Formula 1. They were habitual underachievers. I see no loss other than the poor bastards that worked at the factory no longer being employed.

Confused_Andy wrote:Good news for Sauber.

It was inevitable really Toyota has never had a podium - it just shows that cash isnt everything.

Toyota has lots of podiums. No wins.

Why were they looking for drivers then?

I think they wont leave until they win a race.. give them another year.. the announcement might just be a driver one..

If the guys at Cologne are sending their CVs out en masse something is very smelly. It would be good for Sauber indeed.

oh no:(

I was looking forward to seeing Kobayashi racing nextyear, i hope he still gets a seat.

Giblet wrote:

Confused_Andy wrote:Good news for Sauber.

It was inevitable really Toyota has never had a podium - it just shows that cash isnt everything.

Toyota has lots of podiums. No wins.

my mistake, thats what i meant to say, the fingers had other ideas...

If Toyota do withdraw, could this mean that McLaren could urchace thie teams engine department???

But i highly expect that Toyota will-not withdraw, but i do expect that they could keep on in the sport as a engine manufacturer only, selling the team to say Prodrive or having Prodrive or a team such as them buy into the team in a 50/50 partnering. It would be a massive announcement in the paddock.

Recently when i have been going back doing my 2006-2008 data charts(and just looking futher back than that) i have noticed that Toyota have been building arround 8-10 chassis a season at a cost of £600,000 a survival cell to build, not to mention the development costs. I think where Toyota have gone wrong is they fact they have too much brain power and resources, not to mention effective management, John Howett and Pascal Vasselon are good, but they need a Brawn or a Newey there, even a Aldo Costa or a Paddy Lowe. A tough, F1 guy, someone that knows how to get the results without spending excess budget that could be better spent elsewhere on the car. A guy that can effectivly design and develop a car with a effective design team to get a race winning car or WDC or Construstors Title car, for the massive Toyota budget.

Im trying to be constructive before the horse has bolted, but i just cant be scathing enough to the Toyota "one aim"/Toyota way thing they want to win F1 with.

Ray wrote:How is this a loss or contributing to the collapse of Formula 1. They were habitual underachievers. I see no loss other than the poor bastards that worked at the factory no longer being employed.

Well, maybe it's just me that sees it as a loss. It's yet another car mfr stepping away from the sport after heavy investment. So now we have only Renault as a mass car mfr with it's own team. Of course we also have Ferrari, McLaren, and the upcoming Lotus, but all of them are specialty mfrs. And Mercedes are just doing engines. It seems the F1 sphere is shrinking towards what it was in the 70's. Maybe a few more years and they'll all be driving around in Cosworth V8s. Big sponsorships are going to be harder to come by IMO. And IMO Bridgestone backing out is a serious blow to the sport. But maybe there's a bevy of high tech tire mfrs out there just dying to get into F1. I'm not all sure about that though.

Lastly, slam Toyota all you want for not winning a race but they actually did quite well this year. That in a year when the margin of being at the front vs the back was the smallest margin in my memory. And the Japanese races may suffer as well, since there is no Japanese involvement in F1 now. Probably no drivers, teams, or engines. I wonder when was the last time that happened?

Im not shure id like Toyota to leave the sport. Personally i think id keep them, but im not shure about Sauber with Quabak as their owners.

I'd like to see the Toyota people stay at work, and would love to see cars fielded, but Toyota already burnt a few years following their corporate mantra, which was unsuited to a racing team, and they acknowledged that finally, and started to run it like a race team, not a car company running a race team. This is when they got results.

We need another Ross Brawn to escalate what is already there and turn them into a contender, under a different flag.

BreezyRacer wrote: Lastly, slam Toyota all you want for not winning a race but they actually did quite well this year. That in a year when the margin of being at the front vs the back was the smallest margin in my memory. And the Japanese races may suffer as well, since there is no Japanese involvement in F1 now. Probably no drivers, teams, or engines. I wonder when was the last time that happened?

Japan is going electrical and hybrid. The block heads in F1 did not realize it. Monte screwed the move of F1 to hybrid. So now things will get progressively sterile. The big manufacturers have no common goal with F1 to pursue. They need to maximise fuel efficiency and hybrid systems to be successfull in business. For F1 it is a tragedy that Ferrari managed to kill KERS by first castrating it and then voting it out in FOTA.

I hope the resource agreement is water tight and will lead to new efficiency moves and a new hybrid formula pretty soon.