Giblet wrote:I'd like to see the Toyota people stay at work, and would love to see cars fielded, but Toyota already burnt a few years following their corporate mantra, which was unsuited to a racing team, and they acknowledged that finally, and started to run it like a race team, not a car company running a race team. This is when they got results.

We need another Ross Brawn to escalate what is already there and turn them into a contender, under a different flag.

Glad to see someone has the same or simmilar opinion as me.

And there has been one Dr Mario Tiessen come onto the market. Not to mention Willy Rampf and the fact that Jorg Zander is out there at the moment. Altho i belive he is working for another team at the moment in a purly consultantsy/advisory role since leaving Brawn.

BreezyRacer wrote:

Ray wrote:How is this a loss or contributing to the collapse of Formula 1. They were habitual underachievers. I see no loss other than the poor bastards that worked at the factory no longer being employed.

Well, maybe it's just me that sees it as a loss. It's yet another car mfr stepping away from the sport after heavy investment. So now we have only Renault as a mass car mfr with it's own team. Of course we also have Ferrari, McLaren, and the upcoming Lotus, but all of them are specialty mfrs. And Mercedes are just doing engines. It seems the F1 sphere is shrinking towards what it was in the 70's. Maybe a few more years and they'll all be driving around in Cosworth V8s. Big sponsorships are going to be harder to come by IMO. And IMO Bridgestone backing out is a serious blow to the sport. But maybe there's a bevy of high tech tire mfrs out there just dying to get into F1. I'm not all sure about that though.

I see this probable news also as a loss for F1, and maybe this, combined with Honda's and Bridgestone's withdrawals may mean F1 is losing the japanese market, which is concerning, given that Japan is one of the classic big economies of the world. Sincerely, I believe that some of the new money coming into motorsport (from the middle east, India, Korea or Angola) is pretty uncertain in a mid- to long-term perspective.

I just hope Toyota is going to shift their efforts to endurance racing, the true circuit racing form that is traditionally the feud of car manufacturers, where the cost/profit ratio is more rational and where one can showcase their technological ability, instead of racing with standardized vehicles and where one's advantage is obtained with tricks invisible and incomprehensible to the average car costumer and of no relevance to road cars.
Maybe the recent news about Dome are meaning that some new Dome-Toyota cooperation for Le Mans is in perspective? Surely, if some endurance racing was done by Toyota still in 2010, a new chassis was not a possibility, given the new regulations coming in place in 2011. It would be great to see the true potential of the Dome S102, and 2010 could be the final chance...

dumrick wrote:I just hope Toyota is going to shift their efforts to endurance racing, the true circuit racing form that is traditionally the feud of car manufacturers, where the cost/profit ratio is more rational and where one can showcase their technological ability.

That may happen sooner than later. Hopefully the hybrid wll evolve in the ACCO's appreciation quicker than currently perceived..

Toyota, Brigestone and BMW departures are signs that F1 is no longer relevant to the automobile industry and the real world. And VW Group is just a good example of why car makers dont need to be in F1 to build a strong brands from the ultra luxury Bugatti/lambo right dont to the mass market VW polo.

The departure of all these Japanese companies is definitely going to hit F1 marketing exposure in Japan, 2nd biggest economy in the world, and possibly Asia. Hence this is going to make it harder for smaller teams to get sponsorship for next year.

I would expect that at least 1 new team to go belly up before or halfway through next season and more to leave at the end of next year.

The future of F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport is slowly losing its attractiveness as car companies around the world are moving towards hybrid and electric cars. Can F1 be as exciting without the fuel guzzling and roaring engine? Can today's F1 continue without car manufacturers participation?

Maybe FIA should consider lifting the ban on tobacco advertisement to help ease the burden of F1 team.

I'm open to being corrected, but I don't think Sauber is automatic if Toyota pulls out. If I remember correctly, Toyota signed the new Concorde agreement and were guaranteed a spot on the grid based on that. Would not this guaranteed spot be sold as part of the team? Prodrive for example? Isn't this what happened with the sale Jaguar to Red Bull?

BMW-Sauber lost their spot and went to the back of the line when they didn't sign the new agreement. I bet they are kicking themselves for that one...

Just my $0.02...

Giblet wrote:I'd like to see the Toyota people stay at work, and would love to see cars fielded, but Toyota already burnt a few years following their corporate mantra, which was unsuited to a racing team, and they acknowledged that finally, and started to run it like a race team, not a car company running a race team. This is when they got results.

We need another Ross Brawn to escalate what is already there and turn them into a contender, under a different flag.

I'll do it if they sell me the team for 1 pound... Any blind monkey could do a better job than that idiot Howitt.

Everyone still think the budget cap was a bad idea? The only bad thing about the budget cap was that it wasnt instituted at least 3 years ago.

ISLAMATRON wrote:

Giblet wrote:I'd like to see the Toyota people stay at work, and would love to see cars fielded, but Toyota already burnt a few years following their corporate mantra, which was unsuited to a racing team, and they acknowledged that finally, and started to run it like a race team, not a car company running a race team. This is when they got results.

We need another Ross Brawn to escalate what is already there and turn them into a contender, under a different flag.

I'll do it if they sell me the team for 1 pound... Any blind monkey could do a better job than that idiot Howitt.

Everyone still think the budget cap was a bad idea? The only bad thing about the budget cap was that it wasnt instituted at least 3 years ago.

the budget cap would have made toyota win a race in the last 5 years?

And its offical

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8341602.stm

ISLAMATRON wrote:Everyone still think the budget cap was a bad idea? The only bad thing about the budget cap was that it wasnt instituted at least 3 years ago.

Budget cup is only a good idea when you can guaranty adequate income. Even if cap was $10 mil, it could be $10 mil too much. And the only way to guaranty income is to get more prize money to the teams, because in the hard times there naturally would be less sponsor interest (even leaving devalued brand aside). I haven't seen ANY moves from MrM side in that direction, he always covered MrE's ass.

I want to ask once again - what Concorde is worth? What is that "3-year committed" thing if Toyota may just leave? My guess it is that teams have to pay three year invoice up-front so MrM get all the money at once

Mario Theissen or somebody capable enough should pull a 'Ross Brawn' and help raise Toyota from the ashes. With proper management this race team should do rather well.

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
Toyota signed the concorde agreement...as far as I am aware that gives that Team (whatever it's name is) a place on the grid (that's where BMW dropped the ball). So Qadbak are still the 14th team. If Toyota decides to sell the F1 outfit as a going concern Honda style then that new team would take Toyota's place as I understand it...so the only way for Qadbak to get on the grid is to either buy the team from Toyota, or for Toyota to dissolve the team.

This has been a long, long time coming.

Unless you're Ferrari, there's not much reason to be in F1 if you're a manufacturer.

The costs are too high for privateers as is.

Keep your eyes on Renault and the three new kids to see who goes next. This isn't over yet.

I just had a dream this morning that i read in the paper Toyota were investing most into the 2010 season and that kobayashi and raikonenn were driving for them.
Really ,

I am highly surprised considering how well they did this season . Really sad for Kobayashi .They were also referring their F1 performances in some ads for their new corolla altis .

Some reports already are saying that a Management buyout is being explored, or as Sauber hasnt signed the concorde aggreement, a merger of the Sauber team and the Toyota team. Also, could McLaren buy the endine department from Toyota now, as BMW are dispanding theie engine department.

What's up with everybody wanting McLaren to buy everyone's engine department!

Toyota is based in Cologne, Germany so a Sauber merger wouldn't be too difficult logistics wise.