ISLAMATRON wrote:They do not deliberately design the cars to produce more dirty air, it would be foolish to do so because it is a by product of inefficient aero and creates drag.

Yes they can.


Dirty air =/= higher turbulence intensities =/= higher drag.

From my own experience in karts I can relate to the original poster´s idea. I know what it´s like to have a more powerful engine only to go significantly slower on the same track during the first laps. It takes quite a lot of practice to get used to harnessing the additional power. That being said I don´t know what the real power/grip ratio of an F1 car is, if anything last year´s tyres did not seem to produce more errors in the track, at least not errors that would lead to someone getting a significant advantage out of a slow corner into a long straight. On the other hand it seems the slick tyres do allow for the drivers to get closer to each other and make quicker last minute corrections that would avoid contact, whereas the threaded tyres seem slower to react to direction changes.

Now, my question. Is tyre slip a function of torque at the wheels or power at wheels? my intuition says the latter.

alelanza wrote:Now, my question. Is tyre slip a function of torque at the wheels or power at wheels? my intuition says the latter.

The answer is surely the former (Torque); most cars can slip their wheels in lower gears (especially if you slip the clutch)...both of which increase the torque at the wheels... but very few will spin their wheels in higher gears (when torque at the wheels is low)... the power is the same regardless of gear (for a given engine RPM).

machin wrote:

alelanza wrote:Now, my question. Is tyre slip a function of torque at the wheels or power at wheels? my intuition says the latter.

The answer is surely the former (Torque); most cars can slip their wheels in lower gears (especially if you slip the clutch)...both of which increase the torque at the wheels... but very few will spin their wheels in higher gears (when torque at the wheels is low)... the power is the same regardless of gear (for a given engine RPM).

Thing about it is, in higher gears you are going a lot faster. As in, if you were to rev the engine in say 5th gear on a static car, and then drop the car onto the asphalt I guess it would also slip its wheels. But to narrow it down, let´s assume 1st gear only, would a car be more prone at slipping its wheels during max torque or max power at the wheels?

ISLAMATRON wrote:No they dont do it at all, it is counterproductive... it would only serve to slow them down

A year ago or so I remember one of the pilots talking about how the diffusers were designed so that the car in the wake gets effected the most. Whoever it was, He had said that Toyota's diffuser was the best for disturbing the air (The Trulli Train?). I know I am speaking vaguely, but I am very sure a pilot said that.

I think one of the most (if not "the most") important problems about overtaking is that the cars virtually have to follow the optimal single line, not because of the nature of the layout but because the other parts of the track are dirty and have no grip, no rubber. So even if they had no wings at all, it would be still very hard to overtake someone from the dirty side.

So does anyone have an idea how to tackle that issue?

I could think of three means to improve overtaking:

• Is there a way to make the turns be taken efficiently from different lines? May be banking some of the slower ones to allow multiple racing lines and more passing ability entering or exiting the curve?
• Also, since DDD is going to stay, would forcing a harder compound in the races reduce the grip enough to allow passing? - well, this is kind of like bringing back the grooved tires.
• Another idea could be forcing a way shorter wheelbase, which should (in theory) increase the possibility of an error by the driver.

Could the more knowledgeable people comment on these?

Surely all of those would be as hard as, if not harder than, banning DDDs?

What happened to that split rear wing? This was meant to improve overtaking

If I remember correctly, the problem is the interaction with the rear tire reducing their effectiveness. The designers of the front wings this year had that same problem, actually.

DanyalDenyo wrote:I think one of the most (if not "the most") important problems about overtaking is that the cars virtually have to follow the optimal single line, not because of the nature of the layout but because the other parts of the track are dirty and have no grip, no rubber. So even if they had no wings at all, it would be still very hard to overtake someone from the dirty side.

So does anyone have an idea how to tackle that issue?

Thats a particularly bad feature of all desert tracks and Hungary. It would be reduced it you generally ran less downforce and harder tyres. You just have to live with less performance in cornering but it would be the same for all.