Red Bull RB5

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Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:27 pm

Theyre used to stop the wing flexing under load.

Last year to keep the wing profile as thin as possible they used a very stiff but very heavy manufacturing technique but this didnt matter as they wanted as much weight as possible forward in the car.

This year they want the same wing profile and stiffness but with greatly reduced weight hence the wires to stop the wing sagging under load.
kreuzberg
 
Joined: 27 Jul 2009

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:13 pm

Fil wrote:actually, looking at the bottom two photos, those cables aren't even tensioned..?

Those were taken at snail pace, so no bumps or aero load to consider.
Saribro
 
Joined: 27 Jul 2006

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:21 pm

isnt the front wing new either? the end plates got holes in it wich i cant remember they were there
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender
wesley123
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2008

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:46 pm

Fil wrote:problem is cables won't stop the wing flexing up, only down.

actually, looking at the bottom two photos, those cables aren't even tensioned..?


Don't worry about the slacked cables. They will get tensioned with DF. It's hard to say what exactly is going on in the "control head". Perhaps just a measuring device for DF. BTW, it's good they allow the wing to flex up so any curbs or off road excursions won't be as likely to take out the wing if it can flex up. I wonder if this device would be legal in anything other than testing. also wonder if it could be a different slant on adjustable front wings somehow, as in pulling up the back cable to increase angle.

BTW, the end plate might be testing for the new narrower front tires for next year. They seem much narrower than the ones they've been using. I'm a little surprised they haven't gotten the new fronts to do some testing with.
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:53 pm

Fil wrote:actually, looking at the bottom two photos, those cables aren't even tensioned..?


They seem to be stretched only when the front wing is deformed, i.e. in motion.

Image
Dmitry
 
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Location: Russia

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:18 pm

Dmitry wrote:
Fil wrote:actually, looking at the bottom two photos, those cables aren't even tensioned..?


They seem to be stretched only when the front wing is deformed, i.e. in motion.

Image


Wow! There's some answers in that photo. Newey has been working on aero profiles in a split way on his cars down the middle for a few years, I think as a way of isolating aero performance of each side of the car during cornering. There is a vast difference of the two sides of car during cornering. If you look at things like the engine cover extending to the rear wing, separate ports for the DD diffuser, and the like it. Maybe this is part of that effort.

Of course maybe it just reveals that the wing is being pitched in cornering from it's own weight or the wing is stiff enough that it pivots at the mounts a bit when DF is heavier on one side. In any case some interesting things to contemplate there.
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:57 pm

You guys are all way off base, Between Buemi and Alguawhatever they have killed so many front wings to they just glued them back together and needed this thing to help keep it in one piece.
ISLAMATRON
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2008

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:48 pm

ISLAMATRON wrote:You guys are all way off base, Between Buemi and Alguawhatever they have killed so many front wings to they just glued them back together and needed this thing to help keep it in one piece.


Actually that would be the Torro Roso team :lol:
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:57 pm

BreezyRacer wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:You guys are all way off base, Between Buemi and Alguawhatever they have killed so many front wings to they just glued them back together and needed this thing to help keep it in one piece.


Actually that would be the Torro Roso team :lol:


Same team, just that all the glue has made the paint show a different color :wink:
ISLAMATRON
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2008

Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:46 pm

Here's some more insight on the cabling used in testing above. If you look at this video you can see a rig testing the flex in the front wing mounts on a RB nose. Very interesting when taken in context with the cables that were tested above.

This post was lifted from this thread by ESPimperium ..
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7710
"Red Bulls 7 post rig here:
https://www.redbullcontentpool.com/stoc ... 1339332536
Shows quite detailed movements of the RB4 on the 7 post rig, and the nose of the RB5 at the start on the flex rig."
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:51 pm

ISLAMATRON wrote:
BreezyRacer wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:You guys are all way off base, Between Buemi and Alguawhatever they have killed so many front wings to they just glued them back together and needed this thing to help keep it in one piece.


Actually that would be the Torro Roso team :lol:


Same team, just that all the glue has made the paint show a different color :wink:


BTW, Torro Rosso are making their own chassis this year. No more piggy backing off of RB development. Should be interesting to see if/what they've learned from Red Bull. The last two races they've had the same aero setup as RB, I think because RB wanted Torro Rosso to be able to help them make a run at the championship.
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:08 pm

some interesting ideas here, with of course some being very wide off the mark ;)
newbie
 
Joined: 29 Sep 2009

Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:15 pm

Maybe there are 4 load cells in that black lump on the wing. They could be measuring down force, harmonics and pitching moment at the same time.
From the picture the outer wing half has more downforce than the inside. Maybe they are investigating vibrations which is very important in wing design, or they maybe looking at having the adjustable flaps independently operable from each other to optimize downforce, kinda like ailerons on a wing.
It's possible wind speeds may vary slightly in a turning maneuver, v =omega x r, wind speed could be slightly higher on the outside wing resulting in increased downforce on the outer wing.
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:33 am

Yes, I'm a time machine.

Any chance Red Bull switched to the wider nose in 2009 just to have the pylons further outboard so the wing could flex legally?
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:55 am

Plausible. Unless someone has evidence that they already had the flexy wing pre-Silverstone?

I think a more likely explanation would be it worked better with their double diffuser. Red Bull introduced their double diffuser in Monaco - but then the car just ended up chewing its rears more. Then they ran in Turkey and got a 2-3, but then they introduced this new nose in Silverstone and won 2 races on the trot.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法
raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

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