European GP 2010 - Valencia

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Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:49 am

WhiteBlue wrote:I don't think he ever had the issue before as the safety car line was never playing a role before. Cut the man a bit of slack please.

Well, that "never had an issue before" thing is sure played many times. Pitting under closed pit-lane was never an issue before Singapore 2008, cutting a track and playing cat-and-mouse on the straight before Belgium 2008, overtaking at the final lap after SC came before Monaco 2009 etc...
How many time is needed before someone takes the job of actually reading and reviewing the Sporting regualtions thoroughtly?
BTW I'm not putting all the blame at Charlie and FIA. I have a lot of respect for track marshals and stewards jobs.
But all those "we haven't a proble with this before" cases ARE annoying.
timbo
 
Joined: 22 Oct 2007

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:01 am

I am a little tired of the Alonso supporters crying foul. I have been trying to understand
1) why Alonso with all his respect to the rules tried to beat the safety car to the first corner - clearly he accelerated and had to brake at the corner.
2) if he were so concerned about the safety of his fellow drivers why he did not see anything wrong in nudging between the safety car and the medical car.

So, Hamilton broke the rule by about 2 meters or less. Alonso too tried to break it - it is on the video -, but he was late and he had to brake. Otherwise it would look blatant. Everyone claiming how right Alonso is when he is crying foul should at least watch the video once again and see for themselves how he crept up to the tailpipe of the SC before finally giving up on the idea of passing it at the first corner.

Interestingly Massa passed the medical car after it passed the safety car line. He didn't seem to feel guilty for fitting very snugly between it and Alonso.
Last edited by outer_bongolia on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.
Carl Sagan
outer_bongolia
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:06 am

And all those claiming how FIA is favoring McLaren should remember the name of its head. What was it? Todt? Did he used to work for a team that has a red car? :twisted:
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.
Carl Sagan
outer_bongolia
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:02 pm

WhiteBlue wrote:
komninosm wrote:The real questions that remain (illogical fanboys aside) are how and why was the 5 second penalty invented, ....


I posted the story of the 5s penalty.
viewtopic.php?p=181467#p181467

And you even quoted it.
viewtopic.php?p=181474#p181474


That doesn't explain how it fits in the actual rules. All it says is that they gained at best 2-3 seconds so we penalized them 5. Well Schumacher gained one position by passing Alonso in Monaco, but was penalized by losing a lot more. I'm asking if there's an actual rule they followed to give this vague 5s penalty.
komninosm
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2009

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:15 pm

komninosm wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
komninosm wrote:The real questions that remain (illogical fanboys aside) are how and why was the 5 second penalty invented, ....


I posted the story of the 5s penalty.
viewtopic.php?p=181467#p181467

And you even quoted it.
viewtopic.php?p=181474#p181474


That doesn't explain how it fits in the actual rules. All it says is that they gained at best 2-3 seconds so we penalized them 5. Well Schumacher gained one position by passing Alonso in Monaco, but was penalized by losing a lot more. I'm asking if there's an actual rule they followed to give this vague 5s penalty.



yep..it is called:Capriciousness... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

and of course in montecarlo it was Hill who had the chance to bash his old friend..
whereas in Valencia Frentzen was perfectly himself ..modest and composed ,looking for a fair compromise ...trying not to hurt anyone..
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:16 pm

timbo wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:Actually, it was seven laps before the Hamilton investigation was announced, and another four laps before the penalty was imposed. The rules then allowed Hamilton another 3 laps before he had to serve the penalty.

So it was 11 laps before the penalty announcement. With 1.40 laptime it gives just what Alonso said.

He also need to confirm the differing locations of the transponders on the McLaren and the safety car.

Is it too hard to check at least that before the race?

"Only once he had all this compiled did he feel confident in confirming that an offence had taken place," wrote Hughes. "What happened on Sunday was the opposite of manipulation; just a systematic, consistent response that took no account of who suffered or who gained," said Hughes.

Agreed. But more than that it just shows that the system s***s c**k.


7+4=20 [-X :^o

How can someone confirm the differing locations of transponders before the race, before those "locations" "happen". Unless you mean something else like testing and calibration.

BTW here's what Alonso is saying now:
“At the time, I reacted emotionally and in that situation, it is all too easy to adopt a tone and say things that can be interpreted wrongly, giving rise to suspicions, something which I had no intention of doing. Sure, I understand that the stewards have a difficult job to do and they have to take decisions that are not easy."
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10972.html

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
[-X :^o
komninosm
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2009

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:41 pm

komninosm wrote: BTW here's what Alonso is saying now:
“At the time, I reacted emotionally and in that situation, it is all too easy to adopt a tone and say things that can be interpreted wrongly, giving rise to suspicions, something which I had no intention of doing. Sure, I understand that the stewards have a difficult job to do and they have to take decisions that are not easy."
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10972.html

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
[-X :^o



:roll: And what is it that makes that so funny? :wink:
Those who believe in telekinetics raise my hand
Mr Alcatraz
 
Joined: 18 May 2008
Location: San Diego Ca. USA

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:42 pm

komninosm wrote:7+4=20

Eleven laps mean roughly 20 minutes in Valencia.

How can someone confirm the differing locations of transponders before the race, before those "locations" "happen". Unless you mean something else like testing and calibration.

From what I get from the quote WB put, Charlie spend some time chacking physical locations of transponders on the cars to check whether the actual cars were relative to each other.
Such check can (and should) obviously be performed before the race.
timbo
 
Joined: 22 Oct 2007

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:15 pm

timbo wrote:
komninosm wrote:7+4=20

Eleven laps mean roughly 20 minutes in Valencia.

How can someone confirm the differing locations of transponders before the race, before those "locations" "happen". Unless you mean something else like testing and calibration.

From what I get from the quote WB put, Charlie spend some time chacking physical locations of transponders on the cars to check whether the actual cars were relative to each other.
Such check can (and should) obviously be performed before the race.


Image

The transponders aren't going to be accurate enough in the situations above, this is has to be done the old fashion way.
Shaddock
 
Joined: 7 Nov 2006
Location: UK

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:23 pm

Shaddock wrote:
timbo wrote:
komninosm wrote:7+4=20

Eleven laps mean roughly 20 minutes in Valencia.

How can someone confirm the differing locations of transponders before the race, before those "locations" "happen". Unless you mean something else like testing and calibration.

From what I get from the quote WB put, Charlie spend some time chacking physical locations of transponders on the cars to check whether the actual cars were relative to each other.
Such check can (and should) obviously be performed before the race.


Image

The transponders aren't going to be accurate enough in the situations above, this is has to be done the old fashion way.


wasn´t the timing deemd to be accurate? why else would you even mention the last digit then if it were just an inaccurate random number?
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:39 pm

komninosm wrote:That doesn't explain how it fits in the actual rules. All it says is that they gained at best 2-3 seconds so we penalized them 5. Well Schumacher gained one position by passing Alonso in Monaco, but was penalized by losing a lot more. I'm asking if there's an actual rule they followed to give this vague 5s penalty.


There was no precedent for breaking the delta time speed rule and so they worked out a way to do a logical punishment. Schumacher's penalty was in Monaco was based on a post race drive through, which is a fixed penalty of 20 s. Due to the field being bunched up if came to several race positions. The penalty was correct by the book but completely inappropriate. One should not compare both situations because the transgressions were different.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:45 pm

komninosm wrote:7+4=20 [-X :^o


timbo wrote:Eleven laps mean roughly 20 minutes in Valencia.


Alonso was talking about laps and exaggerated as I have shown. In truth it was 11 laps to the penalty and 14 laps until Hamilton took it. That was all ok considering the work load at race control. I don't know why timbo compared laps and time in minutes. Alonso never talked about minutes. He simply exaggerated.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:02 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oAxsL9Knj4

Schumy's first lap at Valencia :)

A normal start but overtook 4 cars on the first lap, including Roseberg =D>
siskue2005
 
Joined: 11 May 2007

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:51 pm

Valencia eyes circuit changes to boost overtaking

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/21847.html

I dont see much they can do really... maybe straighten out the turn 2 thru turn 5 section and tighten up turns 8(if they can increase the run off there) & 12
ISLAMATRON
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2008

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:32 pm

Easily done. Use a proper circuit and not some mickey mouse street circuit.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

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