2011 technical changes ....who gains , who loses ?

[Tamburello]

I might be confused at times but still one team (Brawn/Mercedes)got it very right for 2009 but dropped the ball significantly for 2010...so for them the truth that was painted does not apply...they managed a seemingly big step coming up with the best car and came up with almost desaster when only a small change was on

Don't underestimate the non involvement of Honda in Brawn's decline. They had the best car for sure at the start of the year as they had the best DDD and design elements to take full advantage of that. But they didn't develop the car much during the year probably from a lack of funds and their 2010 car design process must have been similarly hampered because of financial constraints. They may have started as the best car but by the end of the season they were probably the third best car behind RB5 and MP4-24. I think they've remained static, mostly, and been overtaken by Ferrari as well rather than gone backwards. Mercedes came on board too late to have a significant impact for 2010.

[Mandrake]

I might be confused at times but still one team (Brawn/Mercedes)got it very right for 2009 but dropped the ball significantly for 2010...

Are you sure they got it right for 2009? I think their secret in 2009 was the best DDD combined with the best Aero of all DDD cars (Thus their advantage over Toyota and Williams). I remember Button weaving a lot even in the race to get / keep heat into the tires. I think that shows that they never got the tires to work properly.

On Topic: I doubt that the Pirelli will be much different in terms of feeling or grip they offer. Wear and temps might differ a bit, but those who had tire probs in 2010 will have tire probs in 2011 if they'd just bolt on the Pirellis.

Additionally I believe the RedBulls to have the best base to work on for 2011, their 2009 contender was pretty damn good for a non DDD car and I'm sure AN will find a way to package the KERS appropriately. (It would be interesting to know what weight ratio RedBull had in 2009 and 2010)

Second to the RedBulls might the MGPs, longer development time and hopefully the right conclusions from 2010 + MSC development input can put them back at the front.

McLaren will have a hard time to find some pace as in 2009 they only became quick after the introduction of their DDD....and so will Ferrari. Their 2009 contender was really bad and it will be interesting to see if they can convert anything from their 2010 performance into a non DDD car.

Lastly, Renault with a clean sheet design will be the ones that either get it massively right and end up challenging at the front, or they'll just get a normal car which is running for 4th - 7th places.

[marcush.]

I´m pretty sure it was not just the ddd that made the Brawn a winning car.

their Front wing was special as well ..a year on we have already forgotten what BMW ,Ferrari and all the others came up with as frontwing endplates...

[Tamburello]

Good point, Mandrake. The BGP001 had major problems heating up its tyres all year, especially at cold tracks.

[Mandrake]

I´m pretty sure it was not just the ddd that made the Brawn a winning car.

their Front wing was special as well ..a year on we have already forgotten what BMW ,Ferrari and all the others came up with as frontwing endplates...

That's what I meant, DDD + good aero (front wing as you've mentioned, late 2010 Front wings still looked like the BGP001 ones in the way they were set up)

Another interesting point to discuss: Teams like HRT, Virgin and Lotus do not have any data of a single diffuser car.....does that somehow nullify a lot of the data gathered in the 2010 season? Or can they derrive a couple of useful things for their 2011 contender?

[raymondu999]

They can still derive their data on chassis and wings, and don't forget their data in terms of setting up for the different racetracks.

[jamsbong]

Button recently complaint about the limited movable rear wings and how it will not benefit balancing the car.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=49764

On the other hand, Schumacher and Massa appears to enjoy the new Pirelli tires. My hope is that these tires will be more suited for the guys who like oversteery cars.

That potentially means that Hamilton/Vettel/Schumacher/Massa will have advantage over their respective teammate.

[lebesset]

if you take away the effect of the DD in 2009 , then RBR already had a clear advantage ; 2011 regs are in many ways going back to 2009 , there really isn't going to be a huge difference 2009/2011

for that reason I expect RBR to be right back at the top of the tree from word go ; button won the WDC in 2009 because as soon as the DD advantage disappeared he ignored the win in style brigade and just drove conservatively picking up points as he could in what by then was perhaps the 3rd/4th best car ; frankly I feel that vettel could have been WDC anyway ...I also feel that webber would have been WDC in 2010 if he had followed the button approach

[raymondu999]

There's a new article on the FOM website regarding technical changes for next year. Nothing on the sharkfin though. Interestingly, the FOM website pins the weight distribution down to 46.5% front, 53.5% rear.
The mickey mouse moving rear wing is optional, too.
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2 ... 11579.html

[lebesset]

I note that massa says that his difficulties in 2010 were not related to his accident but to the bridgestone tyres
he also is quoted as saying that his attitude to pirelli tyres is ...very positive

and I read the clip about button and the loss of the adjustable front wing ...he just said that it will make it more difficult for everyone to balance the car ...how is that complaining ?

[deus1066]

Just read this on the F1 website regarding the stupid adjustable rear wing:

"Under new moveable bodywork regulations for next season, drivers will be able to adjust the rear wing from the cockpit, with the current moveable front wing due to be dropped. The system’s availability is expected to be electronically governed and under initial proposals it would only be activated when a driver is less than one second behind another at pre-determined points on the track. The system would then be deactivated once the driver brakes. It would be available at all times throughout practice and qualifying and, in combination with KERS (below), should boost overtaking. Also like KERS, it won’t be compulsory."
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2 ... 11579.html

Does this mean teams will be running their cars lined up in qualifying to advantage the one behind. I really hope this is a misprint/error.

[autogyro]

It is no misprint or error, just the latest in the drive to maintain aero as the main technical direction in F1 to the expense of everything else.
It is a regulation as full of holes as a collander.

[Mandrake]

Does this mean teams will be running their cars lined up in qualifying to advantage the one behind. I really hope this is a misprint/error.

Theoretically that would be possible, though I doubt the gains are huge.

Most problematic is that you'd need a clear no2 driver to help out the no1 driver, else nobody would agree to help his team mate that way. Thus I do not see the danger of close formations in Qualy

[lebesset]

how about if the rule said you couldn't use it to overtake your team mate ?
then there could be secret agreements between teams where one aids another , then you would get ...you help us and we will see you get our engine/gearbox , hydraulics etc

the mind boggles

next thing ...wikileaks transfers to F1 !

[raymondu999]

I think there's a misunderstanding here. it means that at ANY time, including when you're not behind a competitor, you can use your adjustable rear wing.