Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:14 pm

Gerhard Berger wrote:
myurr wrote:
Gerhard Berger wrote:I mean Hamilton was never fully passed Kamui.

Kobayashi was alongside Hamilton for the 2nd half of Kemmel straight.


Yes he was. He was fully passed until Kamui pulled out of the slip stream to pull half alongside. Go back to that video link I posted which was from Hamilton's car and you'll see that Kamui's car was never visible from that on board shot so wasn't as close as you have been presuming. The external camera angles are deceptive in that they appear to show Kamui further alongside than I believe he was having looked at the on board footage.


or perhaps the on board is deceptive?


It is true that the field of vision is probably worse than the human eye, but still you can see a fair amount of track alongside Hamilton's car and it's clear that Kobayashi is not there.
myurr
 
Joined: 20 Mar 2008

Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:59 pm

Gerhard Berger wrote:
beelsebob wrote:
Gerhard Berger wrote:I see nothing wrong with the positioning of Kamui's car. He's on the racing line and sticks to it. Lewis is inside of him and slowly veers towards him.

And you don't see it as normal for drivers to re-take the racing line after defending? That's pretty much the done thing for all times when the driver defending thinks the job is done because the other person is too far back.

Kamui should have seen that the job was done, and lifted a little... Hamilton certainly shouldn't have assumed that the job was done.


It is normal, but only once they have fully passed the other car.

If the job was genuinly done, then there would have been no need for Kamui to lift.



Mate, what race were you watching? Because if your take is right, you were watching a different race to the rest of us. Lewis passed, completely, Kamui in the downhill section before Eau Rouge, Kamui then came back at him at the corner AFTER the hillclimb.

Kobayashi got a good tow off Hamilton on the straight, then tried to go around the outside of him and there's no way he would have made the corner braking as late as he did.

Lewis was not in the process of passing him, he had passed. Full Stop. Kobayashi then tried to re-take the place and drove into Hamilton in the process.

I don't know why Lewis apologised, he wasn't responsible in my book.

If you want me to illustrate this with stills I can do so, but I suggest you watch the race again because your opinion is, frankly wrong or based upon a different race to the one we're discussing.
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:22 pm

Look at the pics...page 2-3...edit...I should have told ya...when it opens..click the cover to open the magazine
http://www.gpweek.com/
Last edited by strad on Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"To race is to live. But those who
died while racing knew, perhaps,
how to live more than all others."
~ Juan Fangio
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:05 pm

Is people really saying that Kamui should have backed off?

I can´t believe how brain damaged you must be if you think that.
Fault was 100% hamiltons fault thinking he had more room then he actually had.

This forum is just something else when it comes to race incidents or Hamilton.
The truth will come out...
HampusA
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2011

Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:08 pm

HampusA wrote:This forum is just something else when it comes to race incidents or Hamilton.

+100
"To race is to live. But those who
died while racing knew, perhaps,
how to live more than all others."
~ Juan Fangio
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:36 pm

forty-two wrote:Lewis was not in the process of passing him, he had passed. Full Stop. Kobayashi then tried to re-take the place and drove into Hamilton in the process.

I don't know why Lewis apologised, he wasn't responsible in my book.



what a distortion of the reallity :shock: It is quite obvious Koba just drove straight and LH moved left into him and crashed himself out.
vall
 
Joined: 4 Nov 2008

Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:42 pm

forty-two wrote:
Mate, what race were you watching? Because if your take is right, you were watching a different race to the rest of us. Lewis passed, completely, Kamui in the downhill section before Eau Rouge, Kamui then came back at him at the corner AFTER the hillclimb.

Kobayashi got a good tow off Hamilton on the straight, then tried to go around the outside of him and there's no way he would have made the corner braking as late as he did.

Lewis was not in the process of passing him, he had passed. Full Stop. Kobayashi then tried to re-take the place and drove into Hamilton in the process.

I don't know why Lewis apologised, he wasn't responsible in my book.

If you want me to illustrate this with stills I can do so, but I suggest you watch the race again because your opinion is, frankly wrong or based upon a different race to the one we're discussing.


If you think Kobayashi drove into Hamilton, then quite clearly you were watching a different race. As vall said, Kamui drove straight, while Lewis was veering to the left.

Lewis apologised because he is man enough to realise his mistake. Most of his fans in this thread have also realised that he was at least partly responsible.
Gerhard Berger
 
Joined: 20 Sep 2010

Post Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Gerhard Berger wrote:
forty-two wrote:
Mate, what race were you watching? Because if your take is right, you were watching a different race to the rest of us. Lewis passed, completely, Kamui in the downhill section before Eau Rouge, Kamui then came back at him at the corner AFTER the hillclimb.

Kobayashi got a good tow off Hamilton on the straight, then tried to go around the outside of him and there's no way he would have made the corner braking as late as he did.

Lewis was not in the process of passing him, he had passed. Full Stop. Kobayashi then tried to re-take the place and drove into Hamilton in the process.

I don't know why Lewis apologised, he wasn't responsible in my book.

If you want me to illustrate this with stills I can do so, but I suggest you watch the race again because your opinion is, frankly wrong or based upon a different race to the one we're discussing.


If you think Kobayashi drove into Hamilton, then quite clearly you were watching a different race. As vall said, Kamui drove straight, while Lewis was veering to the left.

Lewis apologised because he is man enough to realise his mistake. Most of his fans in this thread have also realised that he was at least partly responsible.


Sorry, but I am not a particular fan of Hamilton's but I don't see him being to blame, at very worst a racing incident, definitely not Hamilton's fault IMHO.

Lewis HAD completely passed Kobayashi, several hundred yards previously. Kobayashi attempted to regain his place over Lewis and drove into the side of him while attempting to go around the outside of him.

Lewis' apology afterwards I am afraid I cannot answer, no more than I can answer the question why Schumacher got away with taking Damon hill out all those years ago.

Perhaps this is one of those cases where you will never persuade me that you're right and vice-versa, but either way, you said earlier that the colision happened because Lewis had not finished his pass. You were wrong on that point at least.

As to the blame for the incident, can we agree to differ?
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:42 am

Gerhard Berger wrote:Kobayashi was on the racing line, Hamilton was not.

Kobayashi only steered right after the contact was made. Before that he remained straight, while Lewis was veering to the left.


you got to understand that this is the BOSS you are taking about, and the BOSS is the only driver who is authorize to race on track. When the BOSS try to pass you, it is your job to make sure you give him enough space regardless if your are on KERS, racing line, DRS etc.
CHT
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:28 am

Gerhard Berger wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:do you mean "past" kamui, of course he cant be past kamui because he always was in front of him. He passed him on the way to eau rouge.

And Kobayashi in the end was not in the position to claim the racing line... but then he just steered right into Hamilton. There was enough space left for Kobayashi.

is my english so bad that I can't understand you guys... :?


Kobayashi was on the racing line, Hamilton was not.

Kobayashi only steered right after the contact was made. Before that he remained straight, while Lewis was veering to the left.


What are you looking at? :?
Hamilton never left the racing line.

Kobaysih simply suffering from Micheal Jordan syndrome when around Hamilton on track. Most drivers do. I realize they get fiesty whenever the come within camera shot of him.

Here is the exact same situation, only Hamilton in Kamui's position:

this is a wet track by the way.

Surely Kamui must alteast have some culpability. It can't be hamilton has to give room every single time. People were even saying this with the Maldonado incident.

You are behind and you are not beside a wall, you can lift or you can skoot over.

What you can't do is turn in. Which is what Kamui did. He was not driven into, he was the one who initiated the touch.

I guess he was trying to do this:

"the swat a fly off the front wing tip with the crash structure" move.
Which is more dificult than it looks. Takes a lot of feel to do this move.
Kamui is trying to imitate the BOSS, but he's not quite yet there.

He should take his practice out on other cars though. I know he looks up to lewis and wants lewis to see how he's improving, but better he take his little knapsack of skills out on the other small fries. 8)
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:17 am

unbelievable...just...unbelievable... :o
Generally I don't care about what people say. I have to be clear with myself. When everything goes well, people celebrate you, when you make mistakes people criticize you.
Sebastian Vettel
Traction
 
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:18 am

Main problem in all this was the way too slow McLaren....Even with DRS wide open Kamui was faster than Hamilton and could get back alongside...

If I were Kamui I would have done exactly the same....why? Because I raced Hamilton for position, in the interview I said that I thought Hamilton to be faster than me, but why should I make life easy for him? By driving back alongside him I can make him take the corner from further inside, increasing the chance of him cocking up. Then I can repass him! I mean, every position helps me and the team in the championship and is worth a lot of money.

It went wrong for both of them, racing incident, over.

Trying to be neutral with Hamilton now: This incident was unfortunate, but not on purpose, rather more it looked a bit unconcentrated on Lewis' side...I'm sure he took it half heartedly thinking he's easily past. But then he gets himself into these situations more often than others.....it's way too much risktaking from his side combined with impatience.
Mandrake
 
Joined: 31 May 2010

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:39 pm

what's odd about this is it was never "at least" reviewed
-- that i'm baffled
thatnoone
 
Joined: 14 Jul 2011

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:51 pm

The stewards would have reviewed it. If they hadn't reviewed it; they wouldn't have said "no further action"
失败者找理由,成功者找方法
raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:59 pm

it would be helpful if someone could find the Kobayashi onboard sequence, but I guess thats already banned to live in a deep underground bunker... and will not resurface anytime soon.
So the mystery who steered into whom will not be solved at all.
"Double points is Tyranny!"
FrukostScones
 
Joined: 25 May 2010
Location: Bonnie's Ranch

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