Virgin MVR-02 Cosworth

[marcush.]

picture march this year:

[raymondu999]

My bad. I didn't realize they had it for a very long time already.

Is it just me, or are the side pods taking pretty much the same route of development that the MP4-25 took? I remarked on the MVR-01 that the side pods seemed similar to the MP4-25; and it just seems to be going more and more similar

[mith]

Well, they looked very much like MP4-25 sidepods for me as well.

[MIKEY_!]

Not a bad car to try and copy really. Especially when you have a tech partnership thing going.

[Polarbear]

Just watched qualifying for Singapore and can't help feeling massively disappointed by Virgin's progress since the upgrade they had for Monza. It looked like they were closing the gap to Lotus, but today they were over a second slower than their nearest rivals, and far far too close to the HRT to be even considered to have made a step forward.

I fail to see how Virgin will be in the sport for too much longer if they do not significantly move forwards in 2012 - I'm just not sure how they will do it...I think they need to gain 2 seconds to be even within touching distance of Q2, and if they are to perform well in the inagural Russian GP in 2014, where they hope to be on the podium, they need to gain 8 seconds...

I think their only future is if someone serious comes in with some serious money...but I fear no one will invest if they keep performing as they are...

[MIKEY_!]

They have no chance of being on the podium in Sochi. Do not fear for virgins longevity in the sport. Remember Minardi, almost always completely useless but they were always there the next year, while other larger more sucessful teams folded. Not that i expect that to happen here, just saying that slow doesn't always = out of the sport in a few years time.

[TzeiTzei]

No matter what upgrades they bolt on to it, the car is simply crap. Lucky for them there are only five races left.

[beelsebob]

No matter what upgrades they bolt on to it, the car is simply crap. Lucky for them there are only five races left.

Yeh, even if they bolted all the parts from an RB7 on there, it would still suck... Wait, no.

I *hate* this fallacious reasoning that there's such a thing as a car that can't be improved by upgrading it.

Some of the necessary upgrades may be big, the team may not have money to design/test/make upgrades, but this is not the same as "that car can't be improved".

[TzeiTzei]

I *hate* this fallacious reasoning that there's such a thing as a car that can't be improved by upgrading it.

Some of the necessary upgrades may be big, the team may not have money to design/test/make upgrades, but this is not the same as "that car can't be improved".

I was refering to the upgrades they have produced this season. To me they don't seem to have made any difference to the car's performance.

[wesley123]

I think it is just the inexperience of the team that is the problem.

The car's building quality also isnt at its best, for example, the picture of the top of the page, you can clearly see the strakes bond to the diffuser surface. Although these are details it requires improvement. Give Virgin time and I am sure they can come out as a good team. I still see more potential at Virgin then at Team Lotus.

[Owen.C93]

I think it is just the inexperience of the team that is the problem.

The car's building quality also isnt at its best, for example, the picture of the top of the page, you can clearly see the strakes bond to the diffuser surface. Although these are details it requires improvement. Give Virgin time and I am sure they can come out as a good team. I still see more potential at Virgin then at Team Lotus.

That was preseason testing though I believe, so you can cut them some slack there. Virgin are expanding quite a bit for next year and a partnership with McLaren will help them out.

[MIKEY_!]

Is there any one particular part of this car that obviously sucks or is it just a poor overall package?

PS will they buy mclaren gearboxes.

[Polarbear]

They won't use Mclaren boxes next year as they are tied in to Cosworth for 2012, I guess they'll switch to Merc then and bolt on a McLaren box...I could be wrong, but seems like a logical step...

As for weaknesses in this years car, I think there are 3 problems:
1) The aero - they are no where near with the aero, though I think this will improve with the Mclaren wind tunnel thing...
2) Weight - the car is simply too heavy - very reliable, they have had more 2 car finishes than an awful lot of established teams, but the design is too conservative. Possibly a response to the poor reliabilty in their first year.
3) The engine - Cosworth engine has to be bad - if not, why would Lotus and Williams both have dropped them for Renault power?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The MVR-03 was designed for the first part of its early life in the new (former) Wirth Research CFD facility that was the most powerful untill Renault updatad theirs a few months back.

Arent all sims and computer models limited to how powerful they can be?

[wesley123]

The MVR-03 was designed for the first part of its early life in the new (former) Wirth Research CFD facility that was the most powerful untill Renault updatad theirs a few months back.

Arent all sims and computer models limited to how powerful they can be?

No, an better supercomputer of course can generate better results because more information can be inserted. Of course tihs is still dependant of the software running on these supercomputers. But the point is -> more computing power -> better outcoming results. Then I dont take software errors etc. in caution.