Japanese GP 2011 - Suzuka

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It's theoretically possible for RBR to clinch the title here. Will they?

Yes
41
67%
No
20
33%
 
Total votes : 61

Post Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:45 am

Probably because it's the first leg of a double-header, and there weren't too many different opinions on incidents :wink:

The more I've been thinking about Button vs Hamilton in 2011; the more it reminds me of Webber vs Vettel in midseason 2010. Webber just found an absolutely beautiful place in his life and his driving was magnificent. Back then I attributed it to Vettel being mentally unsettled because of Webber's strong midseason performances; and once he regained his composure; after the Spa collision with Button; he regained form.

Personally I think that this is what is happening with Lewis vs Jenson. Don't get me wrong; Jenson is a fantastic driver; but I firmly believe that right now we're seeing an on-form Jenson Button vs a not-on-form Lewis. If both were on form; I would bet my bottom dollar that Lewis would come back on top. Having said that; Jenson's strength; after his 2009 title win; seems to be that he DOESN'T go off form a lot. He's in a good place mentally and is infinitely confident about anything and everything in his life and in his career.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:54 pm

Pirelli confirm Hamilton's tyre wasn't punctured: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/10/13/h ... re-suzuka/
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:08 pm

raymondu999 wrote:Pirelli confirm Hamilton's tyre wasn't punctured: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/10/13/h ... re-suzuka/

That sounds like a white wash to me – McLaren stated that they detected a loss of pressure on one tyre only
beelsebob
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: Cupertino, California

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:13 pm

No puncture for Hamilton - just very bad tyre degradation. He said on the BBC that they came with a too stiff set up from the simulator (was that Paffett?).

So Button used his tyres better and set his car up better. In fact he must have been a lot quicker than they (McLaren) expected given he was nearly out of fuel even with a safety car period.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu
horse
 
Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

beelsebob wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Pirelli confirm Hamilton's tyre wasn't punctured: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/10/13/h ... re-suzuka/

That sounds like a white wash to me – McLaren stated that they detected a loss of pressure on one tyre only

From the article:
Speaking to the BBC in Korea Hamilton said: “My tyres had degraded quite a lot and I backed off which lost me a huge amount of time. It turns out the we didn’t have a puncture it was just heavy, heavy degrading.”
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:48 pm

But only one tire?! Something seems very strange about that whole situation. And it was within the first few laps of the race too.
volarchico
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2010

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:00 pm

volarchico wrote:But only one tire?! Something seems very strange about that whole situation. And it was within the first few laps of the race too.

To be fair, lewis had put a lot more laps on the tyres he qualified on than anyone else, because he'd used them in Q2 and then scrubbed in Q3.
beelsebob
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: Cupertino, California

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:17 pm

raymondu999 wrote:Probably because it's the first leg of a double-header, and there weren't too many different opinions on incidents :wink:

The more I've been thinking about Button vs Hamilton in 2011; the more it reminds me of Webber vs Vettel in midseason 2010. Webber just found an absolutely beautiful place in his life and his driving was magnificent. Back then I attributed it to Vettel being mentally unsettled because of Webber's strong midseason performances; and once he regained his composure; after the Spa collision with Button; he regained form.

Personally I think that this is what is happening with Lewis vs Jenson. Don't get me wrong; Jenson is a fantastic driver; but I firmly believe that right now we're seeing an on-form Jenson Button vs a not-on-form Lewis. If both were on form; I would bet my bottom dollar that Lewis would come back on top. Having said that; Jenson's strength; after his 2009 title win; seems to be that he DOESN'T go off form a lot. He's in a good place mentally and is infinitely confident about anything and everything in his life and in his career.

Good post!
I think that of all the top drivers Hamilton's game has been compromised the most by the wear properties of the Pirelli’s. Webber has had problems but not due solely to degradation. Lewis was so much more of a monster when he could run a stint refuel, and change skins that were worth one third of the race before they fell off.
Prop’s to Button he deserves them, and also Fred seems to have adapted, although that may be partly due to the characteristics of the 150.
Those who believe in telekinetics raise my hand
Mr Alcatraz
 
Joined: 18 May 2008
Location: San Diego Ca. USA

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:21 pm

Hamilton saying no puncture:
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:57 pm

Pirelli confirm Hamilton's tyre wasn't punctured


The lap time decay from Lewis looks just the same as Vettel's in the first stint. When the options went, they went at a second a lap. Not surprised to find this out.

Personally I think that this is what is happening with Lewis vs Jenson. Don't get me wrong; Jenson is a fantastic driver; but I firmly believe that right now we're seeing an on-form Jenson Button vs a not-on-form Lewis. If both were on form; I would bet my bottom dollar that Lewis would come back on top. Having said that; Jenson's strength; after his 2009 title win; seems to be that he DOESN'T go off form a lot. He's in a good place mentally and is infinitely confident about anything and everything in his life and in his career.


Couldn't agree more.
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intelligentF1
 
Joined: 5 Oct 2011

Post Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:03 pm

Yep. I know everyone's applauding Jenson's 1st dry win; but the argument was never that he couldn't win in the dry. It was that he couldn't win on pace. I'm sorry to say, as much as I like Jenson; he hasn't quite shown it; has he? His wet weather wins were the result of good calls; and this was a race were keeping tyre degradation in check was key; not pace.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:41 am

Hamilton's right tyre was not really a degradation problem.
It's more like a pirelli quality control problem.

No matter how hard a driver drives, he should not be able to destroy the tyres in such a sharp contrasting manner. If one would post the lap times, it almost rediculous for the tyres to reach the cliff in such a way.

The fact that Vettel was going almost a second a lap faster in the first stint, suggests that the tyres are designed to take more beating than Hamilton is dishing out. So i would say Hamilton's set were out of spec, especially the right tyre.

6 laps and 3 qualifying runs is also very weird for such degradation, much less one side of the car.

May have to do with how many times the tyres are heated in the blankets. 3 cycles of heating detrimental?

Whatever it is, it's really a hard call to say that a driver can turn a 12 lap tyre to a 6 lap tyre just on driving style when he's not even going as fast as the guy in front.
The tyres are just poorly made compared to the bridgeston. Too many random punctures and blistering for my liking.
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ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:56 am

wrong thread #-o
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Mr Alcatraz
 
Joined: 18 May 2008
Location: San Diego Ca. USA

Post Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:20 pm

Kaneda wrote:Before the SC came out during the race, I saw 2 paragliders flying just above the west part of the track. It looked terribly annoying and dangerous coz F1's helicopters were flying just on the same height. Maybe that's the reason SC was sent at that time.

:wtf:

beelsebob wrote:
volarchico wrote:But only one tire?! Something seems very strange about that whole situation. And it was within the first few laps of the race too.

To be fair, lewis had put a lot more laps on the tyres he qualified on than anyone else, because he'd used them in Q2 and then scrubbed in Q3.

Yup, not doing a second qualifying lap in Q3 with new tires screwed Hamilton over.
komninosm
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2009

Post Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:48 pm

komninosm wrote:
Kaneda wrote:Before the SC came out during the race, I saw 2 paragliders flying just above the west part of the track. It looked terribly annoying and dangerous coz F1's helicopters were flying just on the same height. Maybe that's the reason SC was sent at that time.

:wtf:

I mean, you can't fly the medical heli if the paragliders are flying just above the circuit. So they might need to remove them.

see the pic..
http://www.formula-web.jp/news/data/upfile/9653-1.jpg
Last edited by Kaneda on Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaneda
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2011

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