P.U.R.E Appointment

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.

Post Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:30 pm

With front mounting you obviously will have longer plumbing because you do not go directly rearwards but forward where the exhaust will not be allowed to exit.

Depending of the position you will heat up the other components that are mounted in the vicinity. I think you rather heat up the gearbox and the dampers than the fuel bladder and the ES batteries.

But ultimately with the current rules all that matters is aero efficient packaging. If one position allows better airflow over the rear end that will probably settle the issue.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:37 pm

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2735 ... -takeover/?

PURE considering a take over of facilities and personnel from Peugeot.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:05 pm

Makes sense, as Peugeot is probably behind the entire PURE thing, as Peugeot Upsets REnault.

But who has commissioned the engine then, McLaren?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:30 am

What did we tell you all some pages back? The only question is who is going to be the customer and partner team for this engine, because this isn't going to be a customer engine. The smart money is on McLaren.

I like the acronym X. Perhaps a bit of unfinished business from eighteen years ago?

"On the other hand, there has been the news of Peugeot pulling out – and we were fairly inside that this might happen. They are around the Paris area with facilities, offices and test benches; not of the quality necessary for a Formula 1 engine, but it wouldn’t take too much to convert it into a Formula 1 test bench. It would potentially be the cheapest way going forward."

I had a feeling something else would happen when Peugeot pulled out of sportscars. We didn't have to wait very long.
munudeges
 
Joined: 10 Jun 2011

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:25 am

munudeges wrote:What did we tell you all some pages back? The only question is who is going to be the customer and partner team for this engine, because this isn't going to be a customer engine. The smart money is on McLaren.

I like the acronym X. Perhaps a bit of unfinished business from eighteen years ago?
...


I think that is safe to say, Corrado Provera is not known to be a good loser, the way he was booted out of McLaren by the three pointed star to descend into the company of Eddie Jordans and Alain Prosts must have been xtremely humiliating.

But the general idea from 1994 was to kick Renault's arse well and good, I think the Lion's ego is boosted and motivated far more by that prospect than circling around for 24 hours in a diesel chasing an Audi or three.

Just scroll back and behold the list of people engaged in PURE and I find the whole thing obvious.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:37 am

xpensive wrote:Makes sense, as Peugeot is probably behind the entire PURE thing, as Peugeot Upsets REnault.

But who has commissioned the engine then, McLaren?


I have some serious doubts about that. Do you think that Ron Dennis would be keen to do business with Pollock?
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:47 am

I have a feeling that Peugeot could be coming back to F1, but im not entirly sure if it would work. It went tits up last time, and i think theiy would loose intrest again. Who would they want to come back with, that is the question.

I belive that McLaren and Honda will be re-united for 2014 with Honda supplying Marussia with their power plant as well.

But i am in anticipation of at least 2 new engine manufacturers joining/rejoining F1 in 2014.
ESPImperium
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:04 pm

Peugeot are in dire straights at the moment.

Sales down, their new model range has been subject to mediocre reviews and the Koreans are chomping into their market share like cake.
The reasons given for their Le mans withdrawal was so they can concentrate solely on getting the lion roaring again.
If they are looking into F1, it would be a very brave move.
More could have been done.
David Purley
JohnsonsEvilTwin
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Location: SU 419113

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:44 pm

WhiteBlue wrote:...
I have some serious doubts about that. Do you think that Ron Dennis would be keen to do business with Pollock?


I agree it sounds far fetched WB, but who thought Ron would hire Nigel Mansell? Besides, Ron needs an engine works-deal badly within just two years and what are his options anyway? If it's really Peugeot behind this, they would surely relish the chance to replace Mercedes and might be prepared to sugar-coat the deal?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:01 pm

I have to say that McLaren-Peugeot would certainly be a better marketing tool than any number of LMP-1 victories, as F1 reaches a much broader audience on a much more regular basis ... sure, petrolheads follow LMP racing, but these are people who already have well formed opinions about the relative merits of individual manufacturers.

McLaren-Peugeot would get mainstream press coverage for simply being at a race : LMP teams don't get that kind of coverage.

What we need are hard numbers on the comparative costs of running an F1 engine project against the full cycle cost of building, running, transporting and maintaining a full LMP programme. If an F1 engine supply can be provided for a significantly lower cost then I don't think that the idea is too far fetched.

Does anyone know how much money Peugeot was sinking into their LMP project?

Does anyone have any numbers for known investment in PURE?

If we can get the figures, the rest is simple math.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."
gridwalker
 
Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Location: Sheffield, UK

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:23 pm

@gridwalker and x

The costs of the turbo era will not as yet be verified. Is the engine freeze going to be implement from the off in 2014? I doubt it, therefore costs will be higher not only becuase it's new technology, but also with the added costs of constant development.

And McLaren looking at PURE? Hmm I wouldnt have thought so.
Think about it, Craig pollock doing business with Ron Dennis.....

I expect McLaren to continue using Mercedes power, it's a mutually beneficial relationship that's deep seated. A change for marketing reasons would need to justify unseating this relationship. And I cannot see that especially with the risk attached to a start up concern.
More could have been done.
David Purley
JohnsonsEvilTwin
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Location: SU 419113

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:34 pm

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:...
I expect McLaren to continue using Mercedes power, it's a mutually beneficial relationship that's deep seated.
...


With all due respect JET, this is the one scenario I cannot visualize, Ron took a customer year in 1993, but I'm certain that was a one-off. McLaren will obviously want an xclusive works deal, preferably with a shitload of money to go with it.

McLaren-Peugeot would fit the bill perfectly and should most probably save PSA a bundle compared with running a fully fledged factory team in the Le Mans series, as grid says, something which is only interesting for the petrolheads.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:56 pm

So what you are saying is that McLaren want engines with a truck load of cash.

Well let's look at the position both entities shall we.
Peugeot are funded in part by the French people. The French as a nation are exposed to some pretty eye watering debt at present so to have Peugeot blow a couple of hundred million making F1 engines(and there being no French gp...government refused to pay Bernard's numbers), yet have taxes increase and services cut for these projects to exist? Unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.

Then you have Peugeots current position. Declining sales year on year (16% compared to 2010) and a very real sense of fearing for its future. SAAB has just hit the wall, and Peugeot is not immune to the new market force in the automobile industry... Korea.
In fact it's actually more exposed than any marque I can think of given that the Koreans can do what they do better for cheaper.

I read yesterday, that Peugeot pulled the plug on a 100million dollar advertising campaign... Just what they need when the new 208 has been launched.... These are pretty dramatic actions.

Then you have them forking out to build the engines, and then pay McLaren a "shitload" of cash to use the engines?
Again, stranger things have happened but I would say the likelihood is that McLaren will stay with Mercedes as they didn't have a very amorous relationship with Peugeot beforehand(experience).

Maybe just maybe, PURE is just as they say it is. Cosworth will be gone by 2014 and PURE will be there to fill that vacuum.
More could have been done.
David Purley
JohnsonsEvilTwin
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Location: SU 419113

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:25 pm

I believe the general idea with the 2014 Turbos is that they should not cost "hundreds of millions" to develop, hence the xtremely detailed rules. Then a low-boost (some 0.7 Bar) and low rev (10-14k) and the damn thing will last for a season.

The costly part will be the different recovery systems, but that is easier to fit into the general PSA development budget.

I think.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:46 pm

I don't think it's so simple or that cheap to produce.

Besides, McLaren will want guarantees of a competitive engine. How can PURE give that?
IMO the MP4-29 is already being planned with a merc turbo in mind.
More could have been done.
David Purley
JohnsonsEvilTwin
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Location: SU 419113

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