2012 Exhaust Blowing & Coanda

[radosav]

Peter Sauber has admitted his Swiss team is flattered after Red Bull apparently copied the C31′s exhaust layout ahead of the 2012 season.[i]“We had a nice surprise on the penultimate day (of winter testing),” Sauber team boss Peter Sauber wrote in his column for Sonntagsblick newspaper.

“Red Bull announced their plans to use a heavily modified car, as it will race in Melbourne.

“Compared to their first version it had a completely different rear, which differs significantly from most cars — but not ours.

“The Red Bull and our C31 have a very similar concept, concerning the management of the airflow at the rear.

“For our engineers, it was an extra confirmation that they have chosen the right development direction. They are convinced that this concept has the potential for further development,”[/i] added Sauber.

[Adrian Newby]

Yeah, I read that. I don't think either team copied the other, so it's kind of funny and ironic that Sauber is taking credit for something the Red Bull team did while saying they copied them.

Also, he needs to take another look if he thinks it doesn't "differ significantly". The Sauber design is obvious and elementary compared to the RB8. The Red Bull design is much more ambitious and comprehensive.

[hardingfv32]

Downwash sidepods work by the high pressure created above the chassis and sidepod fronts being directed by the sloping top surface of the sidepod towards the exhaust outlet. Directing this flow over the exhaust creates the bending effect of the exhaust plume.

Not trying to argue the exhaust routing subject, but I honestly just do not see why the air flow on the top of the side pod wants down. It has a fairly wide, somewhat flat surface to stay on, where as the side surface has faded to nothing. Wouldn't the flow around the sides be a little interested in migrating upward to the top surface? I am assuming a simple straight on flow at the front of the diffuser which is probably not the case, but for discussion sake let us keep it simple.

Brian

[n smikle]

Yeah, I read that. I don't think either team copied the other, so it's kind of funny and ironic that Sauber is taking credit for something the Red Bull team did while saying they copied them.

Also, he needs to take another look if he thinks it doesn't "differ significantly". The Sauber design is obvious and elementary compared to the RB8. The Red Bull design is much more ambitious and comprehensive.

RdBull copied Mclaren. It was implied by Horner. They only started building their new exhaust since February.

[Adrian Newby]

That is directly contrary to the Horner interview I saw where he said (not implied) they had already been working on everything that is currently on the RB8 well-before seeing the other cars.

[hardingfv32]

At a minimum it indicates that the solution does not represent a major performance improvement. Doesn't give me the story that they were saving something. They have minimal testing time available. They either started with their best choice and then copied McLaren, etc. or they had no clue which exhaust system was better from the start and had planned to test both.

Which is it copy or clueless?

Brian

[Pierce89]

We're talking about the bickering and arguing and B.S., not the genuine discussion.

And, I have much better fantasies than this, I assure you!

Do you believe Red Bull are trying to seal the diffuser with the exhaust?

yes. I absolutely believe Red Bull are TRYING to seal the diffuser. The teams learned last year, that without any openings allowed in the diffuser, using a vortex powered by exhaust flow to seal the diffuser was the best way to augment performance with the exhaust. As the old saying goes: "You can't make the engineers unlearn things."Also,I think if achieved this would,even at the increased distance, be much more powerful than blowing the beam wing etc.

[n smikle]

That is directly contrary to the Horner interview I saw where he said (not implied) they had already been working on everything that is currently on the RB8 well-before seeing the other cars.

Nah uh.. he didn't say that. He said they began working on it one month ago. Which means February. It would be crazyness for a top team like redbull to leave their final design development one month before the first race... it's obviously copied.

check out all the rivets on the body in the picture above. Typical Hack'n slash job.

[raymondu999]

maybe both of you could post your sources up - that way we could see both

[Adrian Newby]

That is directly contrary to the Horner interview I saw where he said (not implied) they had already been working on everything that is currently on the RB8 well-before seeing the other cars.

Nah uh.. he didn't say that. He said they began working on it one month ago. Which means February. It would be crazyness for a top team like redbull to leave their final design development one month before the first race... it's obviously copied.

check out all the rivets on the body in the picture above. Typical Hack'n slash job.

In the interview I saw he was directly refuting claims that Red Bull copied anyone. The interviewer asked the question and he refuted it and gave reasons/examples to back it up.

[Adrian Newby]

maybe both of you could post your sources up - that way we could see both

I am looking for the one I saw.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Horner on the new exhaust on the day they launched it

[Adrian Newby]

Even if you read into this the way n smickle did, it still works out closer to three weeks between the first test and the last test, not the month Christian said.

[radosav]

he is saying that they started few days after they saw mclaren's and ferrari's car launch photos.

[Adrian Newby]

It would be crazyness for a top team like redbull to leave their final design development one month before the first race... it's obviously copied.

When I went to college, it was a basic engineering principle not to freeze the design until the very last possible minute. And Adrian Newey, being a very good engineer indeed, is well-known for this. Infamous for it even, if you ask team managers!