2012 Testing - Barcelona 2: 1 - 4 March

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Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Crucial_Xtreme » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:56 pm

beelsebob wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
NoDivergence wrote:Running very very wide even onto the green section of the runoff on the exit

NoDivergence wrote:Actually, if I'm not mistaking the corner, the Ferrari always runs a bit wide whereas the McLaren doesn't even need to touch the rumble strips


Yep you're mistaken and also "running very very wide onto the green section of the runoff of the exit". :lol:

It's not about needing to or not needing to – it's simply the fastest line through the corner.


I completely understand & agree. But he has this thing about popping into Ferrari threads to bash the team & the car. You can see from his quote above he implied the F2012 was junk/off because it went onto the rumble strips/green run off area and said the MP4-27 was much better because it didn't have to. It's just ironic both cars to the same line going over the same rumble strips & green run off area. That's all.

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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby dren » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:03 pm

douglas wrote:
LONGRUN-ANALYSE F1-TESTS 2012
Team Test 2011 Rennen 2011 Differenz Test 2012 Differenz zu 2011
Mercedes 1.32,273 1.32,067 - 0,206 s 1.29,235 - 3,048 s
Sauber 1.30,614 1.32,571 + 1,957 s 1.29,640 - 0,974 s
Red Bull 1.30,412 1.30,294 - 0,118 s 1.29,706 - 0,706 s
McLaren 1.31,073 1.30,280 - 0,888 s 1.29,923 - 1,150 s
Lotus 1.30,949 1.31,650 + 0,701 s 1.30,014 - 0,935 s
Ferrari 1.29,612 1.30,280 + 0,668 s 1.30,484 + 0,872 s
Force India 1.31,422 1.32,749 + 1,327 s 1.30,614 - 0,808 s
ToroRosso 1.31,089 1.32,417 + 1,328 s 1.30,717 - 0,472 s
Williams 1.31,644 1.32,674 + 1.030 s 1.31,241 - 0,403 s


Auto Motor und Sport sees Mercedes in front compared to 2011 tests and racing


Now this is certainly interesting, and a look at the numbers in a way that others have not.
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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby marcush. » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:15 pm

I´m very curious about Melbourne as I think Mercedes is a bit surprised about the step they made .It really looks like they try to not get carried away after the disatrous years and first want to see evidence they got speed.

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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby dren » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:31 pm

marcush. wrote:I´m very curious about Melbourne as I think Mercedes is a bit surprised about the step they made .It really looks like they try to not get carried away after the disatrous years and first want to see evidence they got speed.


I am guessing either they are surprised about the step they made, or surprised about the step others did not make. They may have assumed others would take a bigger step. I am really curious because some of the data is looking good for Mercedes. Much better than what I had initially thought.
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NoDivergence
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby NoDivergence » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:49 pm

I completely understand & agree. But he has this thing about popping into Ferrari threads to bash the team & the car. You can see from his quote above he implied the F2012 was junk/off because it went onto the rumble strips/green run off area and said the MP4-27 was much better because it didn't have to. It's just ironic both cars to the same line going over the same rumble strips & green run off area. That's all.


I was actually mistaking the corner for another one in the first test track, where it was clear that the Ferrari was running wide likely due to lack of downforce and the McLaren was instead purposefully avoiding the exit curbing. I agree that it is the fastest way through the corner to let the car run wide to minimize steering angle and tire scrub, but a car that can turn tighter will carry more speed through the corner, the point at which the car goes to the run off is the distinguishing point. In the two vids, you can clearly hear that Hamilton has a much smaller lift and more time on the power. Probably worth a few kph on the exit

This is not a Ferrari thread, and even if it was, everyone can have their own opinion. I slowed down both vids and it definitely looks like the McLaren is exiting faster

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby Crucial_Xtreme » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:04 pm

NoDivergence wrote:
I completely understand & agree. But he has this thing about popping into Ferrari threads to bash the team & the car. You can see from his quote above he implied the F2012 was junk/off because it went onto the rumble strips/green run off area and said the MP4-27 was much better because it didn't have to. It's just ironic both cars to the same line going over the same rumble strips & green run off area. That's all.


I was actually mistaking the corner for another one in the first test track, where it was clear that the Ferrari was running wide likely due to lack of downforce and the McLaren was instead purposefully avoiding the exit curbing. I agree that it is the fastest way through the corner to let the car run wide to minimize steering angle and tire scrub, but a car that can turn tighter will carry more speed through the corner, the point at which the car goes to the run off is the distinguishing point. In the two vids, you can clearly hear that Hamilton has a much smaller lift and more time on the power. Probably worth a few kph on the exit

This is not a Ferrari thread, and even if it was, everyone can have their own opinion. I slowed down both vids and it definitely looks like the McLaren is exiting faster


Of course you'd say it was a different corner, now that the McLaren does the exact same thing... LOL. Oh and BTW the original comment was made in the F2012 thread, it was just moved here. It's obvious, you're just a troll. Good day.

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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby Mestrades » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:33 pm

It would be fantastic to see AMG Mercedes on the podium regularly

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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby pocketmoon » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:08 pm

I hope so, I've just bet £100 across a top three quali and/or a top three finish for either driver :) The odds were just too good and I allow myself one bet per year !

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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby raymondu999 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Heh - don't give up! I placed some crazy money for $50 on Button in 2009. I don't know what I was thinking
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dren
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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby dren » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:30 pm

raymondu999 wrote:Heh - don't give up! I placed some crazy money for $50 on Button in 2009. I don't know what I was thinking


I stayed up and drank 7 beers for his victory at the first race. That has to count for something. I picked him as a long shot that year too.
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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby markc » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:17 pm

As did I in 2009, 2010 and 2011. I got good cash back on each way bet for Button in 2011 and the cash from 2009 has been paying for all the other bets ;-)
2010 was looking promising for a while, but then 2 DNFs and Korea didn't help the cause!!

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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby pocketmoon » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:44 pm

dren wrote:
douglas wrote:
LONGRUN-ANALYSE F1-TESTS 2012
Team Test 2011 Rennen 2011 Differenz Test 2012 Differenz zu 2011
Mercedes 1.32,273 1.32,067 - 0,206 s 1.29,235 - 3,048 s
Sauber 1.30,614 1.32,571 + 1,957 s 1.29,640 - 0,974 s
Red Bull 1.30,412 1.30,294 - 0,118 s 1.29,706 - 0,706 s
McLaren 1.31,073 1.30,280 - 0,888 s 1.29,923 - 1,150 s
Lotus 1.30,949 1.31,650 + 0,701 s 1.30,014 - 0,935 s
Ferrari 1.29,612 1.30,280 + 0,668 s 1.30,484 + 0,872 s
Force India 1.31,422 1.32,749 + 1,327 s 1.30,614 - 0,808 s
ToroRosso 1.31,089 1.32,417 + 1,328 s 1.30,717 - 0,472 s
Williams 1.31,644 1.32,674 + 1.030 s 1.31,241 - 0,403 s


Auto Motor und Sport sees Mercedes in front compared to 2011 tests and racing


Now this is certainly interesting, and a look at the numbers in a way that others have not.



Looking at the final column, those numbers certainly reflect the general opinions about testing this year: Ferrari having a shocker, McLaren in a much stronger position than at the start of last year, FI and Lotus making up good ground. That perhaps gives even more gravitas to the -3s for Mercedes - I hope so :)

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Re: Third Test – Barcelona, 1 - 4 March

Postby Schurcedes » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:46 am

That is an interesting analysis indeed, from the 2011 column it's clear all teams bar Red Bull and to a lesser extent Mercedes were pushing on the long runs in testing and that was the upper limit of the (normalized) pace they could achieve in the race. (McLaren's pace is probably not representative since they were terrible throughout testing, and in Ferrari's case further exacerbated by their hard tyre issues)

I remember being rather optimistic about Mercedes after testing last year, though looking back I cannot believe they were over a second off the sandbagging Red Bulls on average.

Even if we were to assume both Red Bull and McLaren will be quicker in the race by a similar margin to last year the W03 won't be that far off the pace as they're in the same 1:29s bracket. Very encouraging.

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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby yener » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:05 am

beelsebob wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
NoDivergence wrote:Running very very wide even onto the green section of the runoff on the exit

NoDivergence wrote:Actually, if I'm not mistaking the corner, the Ferrari always runs a bit wide whereas the McLaren doesn't even need to touch the rumble strips


Yep you're mistaken and also "running very very wide onto the green section of the runoff of the exit". :lol:

It's not about needing to or not needing to – it's simply the fastest line through the corner.


The fastest line is always the shorthest. And the shortest line is not the widest.

So if McLaren can go trough a corner with the same speed as Ferrari do and stay out the green line it means they have more grip :) and are faster.
Alonso: All the time you have to keep the space!

raymondu999
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Re: Ferrari F2012

Postby raymondu999 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:18 am

yener wrote:The fastest line is always the shorthest.

Not in racing it's not. In racing it's the line with least steering.

So if McLaren can go trough a corner with the same speed as Ferrari do and stay out the green line it means they have more grip :) and are faster.

And if they can go through a corner with the same speed as Ferrari with a tighter line, McLaren can go even faster when going wide on the astro :)
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