Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012
Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:42 pm
Having read the posts with interest over the last few weeks it strikes me that those of you with strong opinions on the problems blighting the team seem to be unaware of how these cars are assembled and where responsibilities lie.
Currently at the team, like most of the top teams, they have 600+ staff focused on providing MSc and ROS with 2cars to go racing. The systems are all assembled by the same guys at the factory, 4 or 5 identical sets for ech race, those systems are then brought together by the mechanics for the two cars. The Race Engineers like Clear, Ross, Bonnington, Shovlin are in no way responsible for which assembly they get, that's down to build co-ordinations and sub assembly bosses. The Race engineers are responsible for the set-up, and track side performance; so cock ups like MSc Montreal qualifying are down to them, but not any of the reliability issues.
MSc's had a variety of issues in races, the responsibility for which lie on different depts of the team, so Ross Brawn is not going to fire everyone, especially because in most cases these are the same guys who have assembled Rosberg's parts as well.
As for comments about this team having a history of bad reliability etc; this is the team which won the 2009 WDC and WCC. This is a team that has won the same number of championships as McLaren in the last 10 years
Let's get behind them with the same dignity and spirit with which MSc is doing, show some class guys!
Currently at the team, like most of the top teams, they have 600+ staff focused on providing MSc and ROS with 2cars to go racing. The systems are all assembled by the same guys at the factory, 4 or 5 identical sets for ech race, those systems are then brought together by the mechanics for the two cars. The Race Engineers like Clear, Ross, Bonnington, Shovlin are in no way responsible for which assembly they get, that's down to build co-ordinations and sub assembly bosses. The Race engineers are responsible for the set-up, and track side performance; so cock ups like MSc Montreal qualifying are down to them, but not any of the reliability issues.
MSc's had a variety of issues in races, the responsibility for which lie on different depts of the team, so Ross Brawn is not going to fire everyone, especially because in most cases these are the same guys who have assembled Rosberg's parts as well.
As for comments about this team having a history of bad reliability etc; this is the team which won the 2009 WDC and WCC. This is a team that has won the same number of championships as McLaren in the last 10 years
Let's get behind them with the same dignity and spirit with which MSc is doing, show some class guys!
Last edited by Tomba on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added punctuation
Reason: Added punctuation
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Roccotanski
- Joined: 26 Jun 2012
Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:34 am
ArchAngel wrote:^ Hopefully it'll be more than just a few extra screws, nuts & bolts on car #7 just to make sure it doesn't fall apart before the checkered flag.
They have to sort out their reliability issues then turn their focus on speed. If they have any big upgrades, I hope they work right out of the box. The bad history of this team and throwing upgrades at their car with no effect still haunts me
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare
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Morteza
- Joined: 10 Feb 2010
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea...
Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:50 am
ArchAngel wrote:^ Hopefully it'll be more than just a few extra screws, nuts & bolts on car #7 just to make sure it doesn't fall apart before the checkered flag.
They did some crash tests this week so there is something going on with them.
I guess this will help to narrow down the parts they are working on.
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mep
- Joined: 11 Oct 2003
- Location: Germany
Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:07 am
mep wrote:They did some crash tests this week so there is something going on with them.
I guess this will help to narrow down the parts they are working on.
Hopefully they are up to something good. They have to raise their game if they want to get more wins and podiums.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare
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Morteza
- Joined: 10 Feb 2010
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea...
Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:34 am
mep wrote:ArchAngel wrote:^ Hopefully it'll be more than just a few extra screws, nuts & bolts on car #7 just to make sure it doesn't fall apart before the checkered flag.
They did some crash tests this week so there is something going on with them.
I guess this will help to narrow down the parts they are working on.
Sincerely interested where you obtained this information. Care to share please?
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...
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NewtonMeter
- Joined: 24 Jun 2010
- Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:17 pm
Raptor22 wrote:So with Grabowsky being convicted and sentenced, Daimler are calling for a full investigation...
Prepare for a Mercedes Benz exit from F1 and a re entry to Sports cars
Mr.Ecclestone still maintains his view of having done nothing wrong and OEMs having faith in him for decades...so the point will be : will a trial be started and will this leed to him sentenced? Being accused is sur not enough ...we even had a president being accused of taking advantage from his position without immediate effect and Mercedes did not leave germany or voicing concerns about him ..
So that one is nothing with an immediate consequence to Mercedes GrandPrix programme but it might have on Ecclestones future ...
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marcush.
- Joined: 9 Mar 2004
Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:02 am
Raptor22 wrote:So with Grabowsky being convicted and sentenced, Daimler are calling for a full investigation...
Prepare for a Mercedes Benz exit from F1 and a re entry to Sports cars
MB calling for a full investigation into Mr E sounds like sour grapes. Probably cause of the way "negotiations" around the Concord Agreement and "seats" are going, or the lack thereof?
Maybe...
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Gerhardsa
- Joined: 20 May 2011
- Location: Centurion, PTA, ZA
Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:46 am
Mercedes itself was involved in the Spygate and accused guilty and fined but they did not drop out of F1.
Now why should they even bother when somebody else is found to have some irregularities. Especially when everybody knows that Ecclestone works like this and has ever worked like this. There is nothing new.
Now why should they even bother when somebody else is found to have some irregularities. Especially when everybody knows that Ecclestone works like this and has ever worked like this. There is nothing new.
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mep
- Joined: 11 Oct 2003
- Location: Germany
Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:32 am
There is nothing new but,
1) I'm not sure when the policy was implemented but it could be fairly recent
2) Spy gate really revolved around certain individuals and McLaren took the wrap on that one. Remember it was McLAren's view that Couglan acted along with Stepney and that it benefitted Couglan only not McLaren as a whole.
3) Daimler have been split down the middle as far as F1 goes. this is a convenient excuse
4) Daimler are applying pressure for a more agreeable concorde agreement
5) Daimler didn't want to be part of the concorde agreement till the Grabosky/ Eccelstone court case verdict was handed down.
to be honest I believe they simply want to apply pressure. DB leaving will leave Mercedes, McLaren,and Force India without engines and also Daimler is looking for further stalling of the 2014 engine regulations since it requires substantial investment from them in f1 till at least 2022 to make it work from cost benefit perspective.
1) I'm not sure when the policy was implemented but it could be fairly recent
2) Spy gate really revolved around certain individuals and McLaren took the wrap on that one. Remember it was McLAren's view that Couglan acted along with Stepney and that it benefitted Couglan only not McLaren as a whole.
3) Daimler have been split down the middle as far as F1 goes. this is a convenient excuse
4) Daimler are applying pressure for a more agreeable concorde agreement
5) Daimler didn't want to be part of the concorde agreement till the Grabosky/ Eccelstone court case verdict was handed down.
to be honest I believe they simply want to apply pressure. DB leaving will leave Mercedes, McLaren,and Force India without engines and also Daimler is looking for further stalling of the 2014 engine regulations since it requires substantial investment from them in f1 till at least 2022 to make it work from cost benefit perspective.
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Raptor22
- Joined: 7 Apr 2009
Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:02 pm
The reason why Mercedes isn't updating the car in terms of downforce/aerodynamics...
Interview on SkyTV:
Mercedes has revealed that it is bucking the traditional push to prioritise aerodynamic improvements to its car - because it believes there is a bigger benefit to be had from better tyre management.
While its major rivals – including McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull Racing – have all brought a series of big aero updates over the last few races, Mercedes team principal Ross Brawn says his team has put attention instead on other facets of its car.
"We have been focusing on tyre usage, tyre management and tyre control, and things related to that," he said ahead of the British Grand Prix.
"It has become clear that there is no doubt pure aero downforce helps, but given some of the disparity between lap times of the cars, it is less significant than using the tyres properly.
"So we have done quite a lot of work on the variables that we can control with regard to the tyres. This could be quite a challenging weekend with the weather, so getting the tyres working in cold conditions and getting the wets to work properly is we think a vital part of the weekend."
Brawn thinks that the nature of the season, with the battle at the front of the field closer than it has been for years and tyres playing such an important role, means that the 2012 development race will not be as usual this year.
"The developments are of a different nature," he said. "Perhaps in previous years it has been a simple equation of let's find some more downforce, let's have less drag and some more efficiency, and you always go faster. But this year, if that is not of the right characteristics, you may find the benefits are not so good.
"To perhaps give you a pointer, in qualifying in Valencia it was incredibly close with I don't know how many cars within a couple of tenths of a second – and it is highly unlikely that all those cars had the same downforce.
"So there are other parameters which are coming into force, which we have to understand and we have to find ways of unlocking.
"I think the development will be critical, but it will perhaps develop in different ways – maybe with suspension geometry. Perhaps how you manage tyre temperature and other factors will come into play, other than perhaps the traditional ones we have had in previous years."
Interview on SkyTV:
Mercedes has revealed that it is bucking the traditional push to prioritise aerodynamic improvements to its car - because it believes there is a bigger benefit to be had from better tyre management.
While its major rivals – including McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull Racing – have all brought a series of big aero updates over the last few races, Mercedes team principal Ross Brawn says his team has put attention instead on other facets of its car.
"We have been focusing on tyre usage, tyre management and tyre control, and things related to that," he said ahead of the British Grand Prix.
"It has become clear that there is no doubt pure aero downforce helps, but given some of the disparity between lap times of the cars, it is less significant than using the tyres properly.
"So we have done quite a lot of work on the variables that we can control with regard to the tyres. This could be quite a challenging weekend with the weather, so getting the tyres working in cold conditions and getting the wets to work properly is we think a vital part of the weekend."
Brawn thinks that the nature of the season, with the battle at the front of the field closer than it has been for years and tyres playing such an important role, means that the 2012 development race will not be as usual this year.
"The developments are of a different nature," he said. "Perhaps in previous years it has been a simple equation of let's find some more downforce, let's have less drag and some more efficiency, and you always go faster. But this year, if that is not of the right characteristics, you may find the benefits are not so good.
"To perhaps give you a pointer, in qualifying in Valencia it was incredibly close with I don't know how many cars within a couple of tenths of a second – and it is highly unlikely that all those cars had the same downforce.
"So there are other parameters which are coming into force, which we have to understand and we have to find ways of unlocking.
"I think the development will be critical, but it will perhaps develop in different ways – maybe with suspension geometry. Perhaps how you manage tyre temperature and other factors will come into play, other than perhaps the traditional ones we have had in previous years."
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Mestrades
- Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:05 pm
Mestrades wrote:The reason why Mercedes isn't updating the car in terms of downforce/aerodynamics...
Interview on SkyTV:
Mercedes has revealed that it is bucking the traditional push to prioritise aerodynamic improvements to its car - because it believes there is a bigger benefit to be had from better tyre management.
While its major rivals – including McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull Racing – have all brought a series of big aero updates over the last few races, Mercedes team principal Ross Brawn says his team has put attention instead on other facets of its car.
"We have been focusing on tyre usage, tyre management and tyre control, and things related to that," he said ahead of the British Grand Prix.
"It has become clear that there is no doubt pure aero downforce helps, but given some of the disparity between lap times of the cars, it is less significant than using the tyres properly.
"So we have done quite a lot of work on the variables that we can control with regard to the tyres. This could be quite a challenging weekend with the weather, so getting the tyres working in cold conditions and getting the wets to work properly is we think a vital part of the weekend."
Brawn thinks that the nature of the season, with the battle at the front of the field closer than it has been for years and tyres playing such an important role, means that the 2012 development race will not be as usual this year.
"The developments are of a different nature," he said. "Perhaps in previous years it has been a simple equation of let's find some more downforce, let's have less drag and some more efficiency, and you always go faster. But this year, if that is not of the right characteristics, you may find the benefits are not so good.
"To perhaps give you a pointer, in qualifying in Valencia it was incredibly close with I don't know how many cars within a couple of tenths of a second – and it is highly unlikely that all those cars had the same downforce.
"So there are other parameters which are coming into force, which we have to understand and we have to find ways of unlocking.
"I think the development will be critical, but it will perhaps develop in different ways – maybe with suspension geometry. Perhaps how you manage tyre temperature and other factors will come into play, other than perhaps the traditional ones we have had in previous years."
Yep, article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100934
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zyphro
- Joined: 2 May 2012
Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:32 pm
It is right to prioritize the tire use this year. A car 0.5 slower in qualifying but very consistent in the races with minimum tire degradation would probably win. But I don't see any reason why they can't do both in parallel. It is not that the aero guys of MGP team are also working on suspension, is it ?
Last edited by LionKing on Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LionKing
- Joined: 26 Jun 2010
- Location: California
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