Red Bull RB8 Renault

[hardingfv32]

The way to measure that is putting the car or engine on a dyno which I have never seen on an a GP. There is no sensor on the engine to measure torque directly as this is also not so simple to do.

I would say they know the torque before and after the clutch, and at each axle.

Brian

[alogoc]

Kate Walker ‏@F1Kate
Been told that post-race scrutineering could be a bit more interesting than usual this afternoon/evening. RBR throttle drama not done yet!!!

[hardingfv32]

Can someone please state the position of why 5.5.3 was breached? I do not understand what is wrong with changing the torque output in the mid rpm range as long as you comply with the current rules.

Brian

[alogoc]

Domenicali about RBR off-throttle; ‘ Tomorrow there will be a technical meeting and this will be discussed.’

[alogoc]

At a selected rp/m range they retard the ignition timing but fuel is still at the same amount creating a powerful exhaust thrust but reducing horsepower. So on certain corners they will use gears that are taller but have their feet 100% on the floor. Basically what Red Bull has done is reversed the blown diffuser on the over run and moved it toward on acceleration.


how correct is this theory?

[jz11]

for someone with access to leading car telemetry data it would be easy to see if this is the case, compare gear selection and accelerator pedal position between RB and other leading cars

but anyway this theory seems flawed because in that case the engine is running at lower rpm that it would normally do, thus you already lose all that air/fuel mass right there, I would guess that running lower gear than normal with the "low torque" mapping and throttle wide open you can't get more air into the engine at 15k rpm than you would using the "normal" mapping, "correct" throttle position and 16k rpm because of the higher gear you would select

[PhillipM]

It's probably the other way around - in the low speed corners where you would be spinning the rears in a lower gear, they've altered the mapping to allow the drive to get full throttle earlier and retarded the timing to control the power, thereby providing more exhaust flow.
I'm not sure why that would be a surprise however, it's a pretty standard mapping technique

[hardingfv32]

At a selected rp/m range they retard the ignition timing but fuel is still at the same amount creating a powerful exhaust thrust but reducing horsepower. So on certain corners they will use gears that are taller but have their feet 100% on the floor. Basically what Red Bull has done is reversed the blown diffuser on the over run and moved it toward on acceleration.


how correct is this theory?

Even after last years discussion, we have no science indicating what is required for best blowing results. Is it volume, temperature, etc. How much heat does the fuel in the exhaust system create? I would not use the words 'powerful exhaust thrust'.

Brian

[bonjon1979]

It's probably the other way around - in the low speed corners where you would be spinning the rears in a lower gear, they've altered the mapping to allow the drive to get full throttle earlier and retarded the timing to control the power, thereby providing more exhaust flow.
I'm not sure why that would be a surprise however, it's a pretty standard mapping technique

Is this not a form of traction control as well?

[raymondu999]

It's delaying the power - not actually reducing wheelspin.

[mx_tifoso]

But if it reduces wheelspin in the process, doesn't it technically make it traction control?

[raymondu999]

I think the key differentiating point here is whether or not it takes over in terms of traction or is just a help.

It would indeed help the driver to keep the traction in check. But if the driver were to wish it, he could still do a burnout on corner exit, which isn't the case with traction control.

[PhillipM]

But if it reduces wheelspin in the process, doesn't it technically make it traction control?

Not really, just torque limiting, it has no feedback or sense of what traction the wheels have, and no input on whether the driver spins the rears up or not, it's just making the car easier to drive.

If it also happens to give blown exhausts because the throttle can be open much earlier, bonus.

[alogoc]

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 47419.html

it's about traction after all hardingfv32!!!

[bhallg2k]

But if it reduces wheelspin in the process, doesn't it technically make it traction control?

I've seen it termed "traction management," and I think that is a better way to phrase it. But it's just semantics as far as I'm concerned, because the net effects are similar.