Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Nando]

From what i read it was done by hand when you needed a tool for it normally.

The rule that tools are required for setup changes is so that the 'no setup changes in Parc Ferme' can be enforced - other than that the front wing which can be adjusted (which I wasn't aware of!). Article 34.5 of the F1 regulations.

Horner told Autosport: "It was something that could either be changed by hand or by tool, but the FIA said they preferred it was a tool that was used". Seems like an awfully nice spin he's putting on it.

Yea read that but i´ve stopped listening to Horner a long time ago, he would sell his own mother if the team could benefit from it.

[Muulka]

The way I see it is that Horner's mouth is the Bull's rear end...

I pretty much ignore everything he says.
Clearly what they have is illegal; I hear that the FIA have put seals on these hand-adjustable parts to stop them cheating.

I remember that in 2010 McLaren developed a ride-hight adjustment system, but they never used it because the FIA said no when they asked.
I'd say that Red Bull could be getting slightly desperate, as they are struggling to get the car working like last year with the bloen diffusers...

[IWE]

The way I see it is that Horner's mouth is the Bull's rear end...

I pretty much ignore everything he says.
Clearly what they have is illegal; I hear that the FIA have put seals on these hand-adjustable parts to stop them cheating.

And here it is as seen yesterday during qualifying:



Found from here: http://community.futuremark.com/forum/s ... n-GP/page2

[funkyfreddy]

So just to clarify, these seals are new and not seen at previous weekends? So that disproves the argument that this story is old and from Canada doesn't it?

[siskue2005]

Those seals are there on ALL CARS AT RACES SINCE THE DAYS when they started to put cameta on the garage instead of taking the cars to Parc FERME...I think it's from 2010

[IWE]

So just to clarify, these seals are new and not seen at previous weekends? So that disproves the argument that this story is old and from Canada doesn't it?

Actually story is kind of old and it is still about things which FIA notised at the starting grid of Canadian GP, but it is about whole time since beginning of 2010 season till 2012 Hungaroring qualifying, but thank god even possibility of this thing being used illegally from now on have been made impossible during this weekend.

I just cannot understand why FIA didn't do something for potential cheating already at Canada when they found this thing out.

[hardingfv32]

I just cannot understand why FIA didn't do something for potential cheating already at Canada when they found this thing out.

Because this whole issue is subject to interpretation. The official in Canada did not believe the adjustment could be made without a tool. The official in Germany had a different opinion.

A team could honestly believe that the adjustment can not be made without a tool. Their rational could be in the context of accuracy. They would never consider a non tool adjustment because it would be completely inaccurate. Thus they view the design as requiring a tool to perform an adjustment.

Brian

[ringo]

"We aren't changing ride height. We are changing the stiffness of a spring."

Yes this may not be illegal. Changing the stiffness of a spring is actually something you just cant do to any spring.
It's not really a ride height change.

That's a very interesting spring.

I believe that redbull's success in the last 3 years is down to a lot of grey area innovations. The traction of the cars and the supple suspensions and crazy downforce levels, all little tricks. Even the engine maps, as I always thought Vettel's style was a result of some special maps allowing him to stomp on it early in corner exit. Everything that can make the car amazing could all be some gizmo or trick. It's like an athlete that takes steroids, you don't know how much of his career is actually attributed to steroids.

[Cam]

It's like an athlete that takes steroids, you don't know how much of his career is actually attributed to steroids.

Not really. Taking steroids is a banned substance. People caught using it are usually stripped of any medals and prevented from competing for some time. What F1 teams do is 'interpret' a set of rules in a different manner to what the FIA had intended. Bothe views - what the FIA meant & what the team interprets - are correct. There is nothing banned about this, nor is it cheating. It's part of the game.

The RB8 is built around this fact. Look at all the major components on the car, including exhaust - there's no way the FIA intended that to occur, but the teams had different thoughts.

[Pup]

So perhaps F1 will eventually evolve into a form of Interpretive Racing, where points are awarded by loopholes found or through successful protests of competing designs. We could avoid the actual racing altogether, which should increase safety tremendously, and instead submit semi-monthly legal briefs, excluding summer break of course.

[Cam]

So perhaps F1 will eventually evolve into a form of Interpretive Racing, where points are awarded by loopholes found or through successful protests of competing designs.

What do you mean by perhaps? We're already there and have been for some time.

[Pup]

Point taken.

[ringo]

It's like an athlete that takes steroids, you don't know how much of his career is actually attributed to steroids.

Not really. Taking steroids is a banned substance. People caught using it are usually stripped of any medals and prevented from competing for some time. What F1 teams do is 'interpret' a set of rules in a different manner to what the FIA had intended. Bothe views - what the FIA meant & what the team interprets - are correct. There is nothing banned about this, nor is it cheating. It's part of the game.

The RB8 is built around this fact. Look at all the major components on the car, including exhaust - there's no way the FIA intended that to occur, but the teams had different thoughts.

An athlete does the same thing. There is a list of substances that is like the FIA rules. He can take say cough medicine and argue it was for allergies and not to enhance performance. In fact it's left to interpretation and deliberation just as much as F1.
My main point is that like the athlete we dont know what percentage of the success in the past is due to the cheating.

What is important is the intent. Redbull knows fully well what they are trying to acheive; it's an unfair advantage. No matter how you cut it. Same as the athlete.

A spring is something that should have a spring constant at a certain displacement. Even if it has different rates across its length, it's not something that you can just change to behave differently at the same extension.
What is this spring horner is talking about?

[gato azul]

A spring is something that should have a spring constant at a certain displacement.
Even if it has different rates across its length, it's not something that you can just change to behave differently at the same extension.

just google spring rubbers for a fairly simple example to do just this to any sort of coil spring.




I'm not saying, that this is what RBR is doing, because I don't know, just providing a fairly simple example of a possible spring stiffness change without any change in length/static ride height.
clip a ring around a elastomere/bumstop to limit the possible volume it can expand to, and you achieve pretty much the same thing.

[bhallg2k]

I guess this then would be the requisite tool to perform such adjustments.