Red Bull Renault RB11 speculation thread

[Blackout]

As you know Red Bull will be Renault's work team in 2015.
Some sources say Renault will concentrate on the ICE while RBR will take over the ERS side.
I dont think Renault will/can follow the Merc split turbo path for 2015. The new engine has been fired up on the dyno in july 2014 according to C.Abiteboul but R.Taffin says in different interviews between august and september that Renault is still working on the same 2014 architecture. However he adds that Renault will evaluate other solutions like the split turbo...

Newey

“Well in our case, obviously we have an engine partner in Renault and therefore the division is very clear. We make requests in terms of what we'd like from the engine architecture point of view and how that would best install in the chassis. Renault are able to accommodate some of those requests - some of them. Others they say no they can't do that in the time available or they don't believe it's the right thing to do anyway.”

[Blackout]

IMO Red Bull and Renault will follow Ferrari with its 'V' water-air intercooler and Mercedes 'monocoque-integrated' w-a intercooler and replace its big sidepod a-a intercoolers by a small w-a intercooler (purple) placed somehow just behind the new intake plenum.
This way the intercooler is much closer to the compressor and the ICE intake, has no drag penalty, no foot print on the floor and the compressor pipe is away from the exhaust pipes.
Then RBR can place its small water radiator either in the sidepod, or behind the engine where the Gearbox/ERS rads used to sit or like STR/Marussia, just behind the driver's head in order to free as much place as possible in the sidepods.

http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/14/79/55/26/edfwvc12.jpg

[scarbs]

I'm told the Renault PU will be packaged differently, but not exactly how. I know the RBR nose will be a long version overhanging the front wing. It will keep the S duct and bulbous chin fairing.

[Blackout]

Renault might ditch its disk-shaped compressor airbox too and work on a more simple 'L' shaped duct similar to the Merc one*.
This duct would run a short way through the V (similar to the PURE or Ferrari design)** and let them place the turbo closer to the engine. As a result, the G-box+turbo COG will get closer to the car's center, the Gbox could be more compact and the exhaust/charge air pipework will be shorter.

RS34 compressor airbox


*Mercedes compressor duct


**PURE turbo


New spec vs 2014 layout

[Blackout]

In a recent interview, Horner says that the 'Ilmor' Indy V6 turbo and the F1 Renault V6 faced similar ptoblems... do you know what problems did the indy V6 encounter ?

[FrukostScones]

In a recent interview, Horner says that the 'Ilmor' Indy V6 turbo and the F1 Renault V6 faced similar ptoblems... do you know what problems did the indy V6 encounter ?

problems with efficient fuel injection or vibrations...

[lio007]

In a recent interview, Horner says that the 'Ilmor' Indy V6 turbo and the F1 Renault V6 faced similar ptoblems... do you know what problems did the indy V6 encounter ?

Here are some links...but the problems are not mentioned explicitly
http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/c ... no338.html

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/e ... ine-crown/

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports ... ines-2014/

http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/ite ... Car_2014_2

[Richard]

New spec vs 2014 layout

The turbo is likely to be split next year??

[R_GoWin]

Here are some links...but the problems are not mentioned explicitly

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/e ... ine-crown/

Interesting links there lio007 - some things that caught my eye:

1. The rectangular airbox entry of the Chevrolet/Illmor is not too dissimilar that of the RS34, as posted by Blackout earlier.

2. One of the links talk about Illmor's problems being around using the ethanol based fuel of Indycar and Direct Injection. And how Illmor had never done a DI engine until 2009. Couple that with the fact that the engines are turbo-charged, Illmor may have something to offer to Red Bull.

3. Chevrolet/Illmor appears to have used use a port injection to go in hand with Direct Injection, because “...you can’t get enough ethanol into the engine through the direct injectors”. This is really interesting, but for F1 fans, masks the performance of their DI technology. I wonder if they use DI with port injection simply because the rules allow them, or because they couldn't get an efficient combustion system with DI. It will be interesting to see what type of solution Honda has come up with for Indycar.

4. Baseline ethanol has a higher octane number than conventional fuel. Assuming fuel additives push knocking tendencies by a similar margin in both F1 and Indycar (are fuel additives allowed in Indycar?) - ethanol is still better off and Illmor may not have run into similar kind of trouble with knocking as Renault has said to have faced with their F1 engine.

[Harsha]

New Nosed RB11 (surely Not official)

[henra]

New Nosed RB11 (surely Not official)
http://i.imgur.com/X0m7rb1.jpg

Me likeeee! =D> =D>
If that is what we can expect from the new nose regulations then I'm fine with it.

[PlatinumZealot]

Here are some links...but the problems are not mentioned explicitly

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/e ... ine-crown/

Interesting links there lio007 - some things that caught my eye:

1. The rectangular airbox entry of the Chevrolet/Illmor is not too dissimilar that of the RS34, as posted by Blackout earlier.

2. One of the links talk about Illmor's problems being around using the ethanol based fuel of Indycar and Direct Injection. And how Illmor had never done a DI engine until 2009. Couple that with the fact that the engines are turbo-charged, Illmor may have something to offer to Red Bull.

3. Chevrolet/Illmor appears to have used use a port injection to go in hand with Direct Injection, because “...you can’t get enough ethanol into the engine through the direct injectors”. This is really interesting, but for F1 fans, masks the performance of their DI technology. I wonder if they use DI with port injection simply because the rules allow them, or because they couldn't get an efficient combustion system with DI. It will be interesting to see what type of solution Honda has come up with for Indycar.

4. Baseline ethanol has a higher octane number than conventional fuel. Assuming fuel additives push knocking tendencies by a similar margin in both F1 and Indycar (are fuel additives allowed in Indycar?) - ethanol is still better off and Illmor may not have run into similar kind of trouble with knocking as Renault has said to have faced with their F1 engine.

Pointing at #3 of your post: The reason why they use and additional set of injectors is because Ethanol has a different stoichiometric air fuel ratio to Gasoline (which I don't remember right now). You need significantly more volume flow for Ethanol. The direct injectors in the cylinder head are limited in size and fuel flow rate so they had to use an additional bank of injectors to meet the air fuel ratio the want at certain parts of the engine speed/load map.

[countersteer]

The reason why they use and additional set of injectors is because Ethanol has a different stoichiometric air fuel ratio to Gasoline (which I don't remember right now). You need significantly more volume flow for Ethanol.

Memory tells me that it is 40% by volume... Can't swear to it though.

[R_GoWin]

Pointing at #3 of your post: The reason why they use and additional set of injectors is because Ethanol has a different stoichiometric air fuel ratio to Gasoline (which I don't remember right now). You need significantly more volume flow for Ethanol. The direct injectors in the cylinder head are limited in size and fuel flow rate so they had to use an additional bank of injectors to meet the air fuel ratio the want at certain parts of the engine speed/load map.

Gasoline is a heavier hydrocarbon - the stoichiometric AFR of ethanol with only 2 carbon atoms is surely got to be lesser. But interesting point about the higher volume flow though - I don't think ethanol has a higher calorific value than conventional fuels. So it could be that you need to burn more fuel simply to achieve similar power levels as that of gasoline engines, to offset for the lower LHV of the fuel (unless this is what you meant and I've re-invented the wheel! ). It wouldn't be good advertisement for Indycar if the cars are under-powered and run slower simply because you've switched to alternate fuels!

Anyway moving on to Red Bull,

As you know Red Bull will be Renault's work team in 2015.
Some sources say Renault will concentrate on the ICE while RBR will take over the ERS side.

I hear Red Bull aims to have a complete engine development program, not just ERS. At a high level, the headcount of Brixworth > Viry + Mecachrome, and Milton Keynes wants to close that gap and grow a team. Also its easier to find the right people, and have a quick turnaround in building and testing parts in Oxfordshire with the whole motorsport supply chain in your backyard, than Paris.

[Blackout]

Thank you boys.

Taffin and Illien about the V6, the power difference between the Merc and the Renault, the developpment, the split turbo layout etc.
(german)
http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/forme ... -probleme/