"The Beast" Penske Mercedes PC-23

[FoxHound]

Fantastic story. I remember reading about this from http://8w.forix.com/penske-mercedes-pc23.html, and it is a fantastic read.

Thank you for this link....LOADS of info here.



As for what was literally to be the strong point of the engine, Paul Tracy said:

"I don't know what the horsepower numbers are. But it definitely has some horsepower."

[toraabe]

Actually a perfect engine for future F1. Lots of tourqe ane enough top end power. And for sure not expensive. Just imagine all that wheelspin when the turbo kicks in when you had too much trottle out of the corner ;=) .... They had wheelspin at over 200mph hence the touqe...

[Jersey Tom]

Regarding the book, you can read it on Amazon as part of their 30 day free trial.
Or if you want an E copy, it's £8.40.... Tuppence!

The link if ya dig.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beast-Secret-Il ... 8&sr=&qid=

Not sure if this transgresses any forum rules...mods can advise in due course while the link stays up.

I'll vouch this is a good book, fun read. A couple of the guys mentioned therein still work at the Penske race shop in NC.

[bill shoe]

The engine was so good that it covered up the fact that the car was a bit of a dog. The 200 hp power advantage only translated to a couple miles per hour advantage at Indy practice and qualifying. The next year with "regular" engines the Penske cars failed to qualify due to a severe aero/handling balance or instability problem. In hindsight this problem was already occurring the year before with the pushrod special, but the huge power advantage allowed Penske engineers to just pile on downforce and go. This makes the engine legend more impressive to me, not less. It's like F1 today if Mercedes put an engine in the Manor and it proceded to take pole at Malaysia this weekend.

Two easy digs at GM that were gleaned from the fantastic interview with Mario Illien --

First: GM lost this incredible resource (Illmor) forever due to trivial budget cutting. The annual Illmor budget would not have paid for the stamping tooling on, say, the door of a 1990 Chevy Corsica or some similar shitty car.

Second: the entire opportunity to do this pushrod engine came up because the GM (Buick) V-6 turbo program was so inept. The Indy Motor Speedway opened up the rules for Buick to the point of absurdity, and Buick still did not win or come close. Instead Illmor spent 6 months designing a good engine to the "Buick" rules and won Indy the first time out.

[Sombrero]

Source : http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showth ... -500/page4

In motion : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkHsuxsHZGo

Tug of War : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLWcWGDZS5o

[Sevach]

The engine was so good that it covered up the fact that the car was a bit of a dog. The 200 hp power advantage only translated to a couple miles per hour advantage at Indy practice and qualifying. The next year with "regular" engines the Penske cars failed to qualify due to a severe aero/handling balance or instability problem. In hindsight this problem was already occurring the year before with the pushrod special, but the huge power advantage allowed Penske engineers to just pile on downforce and go. This makes the engine legend more impressive to me, not less. It's like F1 today if Mercedes put an engine in the Manor and it proceded to take pole at Malaysia this weekend.

Two easy digs at GM that were gleaned from the fantastic interview with Mario Illien --

First: GM lost this incredible resource (Illmor) forever due to trivial budget cutting. The annual Illmor budget would not have paid for the stamping tooling on, say, the door of a 1990 Chevy Corsica or some similar shitty car.

Second: the entire opportunity to do this pushrod engine came up because the GM (Buick) V-6 turbo program was so inept. The Indy Motor Speedway opened up the rules for Buick to the point of absurdity, and Buick still did not win or come close. Instead Illmor spent 6 months designing a good engine to the "Buick" rules and won Indy the first time out.

I remember that the Buick Menard cars often set the pole, but they pretty much always failed to finish, and weren't that quick in the race too.

[WaikeCU]

This! This is what Indycar should be like. I really don't like how Indycars looks these days.

[Cold Fussion]

So why did this engine have such a huge power advantage over the other manufacturers?

[toraabe]

So why did this engine have such a huge power advantage over the other manufacturers?

Explained here and the full story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0pERdDBSi0

[OO7]

At what point did the competition realise that Penske's Mercedes units were beasts?

[FoxHound]

At what point did the competition realise that Penske's Mercedes units were beasts?

I'd say at the exact moment the car was clocked doing 412km/h on the straight...

[riff_raff]

During the time this engine was used the 500 race was a big deal. So owners like Penske were willing to spend huge amounts of money building special engines just to win this one race. Sadly this is no longer the case. The Indy 500 is currently a shadow of its former glory.

[FW17]

Not to mention the short development time of 9 months from Concept to race

[XRayF1]

Regarding the book, you can read it on Amazon as part of their 30 day free trial.
Or if you want an E copy, it's £8.40.... Tuppence!

The link if ya dig.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beast-Secret-Il ... 8&sr=&qid=

Not sure if this transgresses any forum rules...mods can advise in due course while the link stays up.

I'll vouch this is a good book, fun read. A couple of the guys mentioned therein still work at the Penske race shop in NC.

Do you a favor and read it.
Bought it the day before and could not put it down a minute.
It is kind a soft at the beginning, but develops nicely.
Worth a good read.

And it gives a good view on engine development in the past, which may for some part be also valid today - looking at the newly developed F1 engines. The book also mentioned that the 265E had some ECU problems. Not unlike Renault and Honda are facing today, but for other reasons ...

[djos]

Regarding the book, you can read it on Amazon as part of their 30 day free trial.
Or if you want an E copy, it's £8.40.... Tuppence!

The link if ya dig.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beast-Secret-Il ... 8&sr=&qid=

Not sure if this transgresses any forum rules...mods can advise in due course while the link stays up.

Thanks for the link Fox, just bought it and reading it now.