The Sauber F1 Team is pleased to announce that Pascal Wehrlein will complete the team’s driver line-up for the 2017 Formula One World Championship. He will race alongside Swede Marcus Ericsson who continues with the Swiss team.
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I think next year could be a crazy driver market year.
What I would love to see:
-Mercedes: Hamilton & Hulkenberg
-Ferrari: Vettel & Rosberg
-Red Bull: Ricciardo & Verstappen
-McLaren: Alonso & Vandoorne
-Renault: Grosjean & Perez
-Williams: Bottas & Lynn
-Force India: Wehrlein & Magnussen
-Toro Rosso: Sainz & Kyvat
-Sauber: Maldonado & Nasr
-Haas: Newgarden & Rossi
-Manor: Kirchhöfer & Ocon
What is likely to happen:
-Mercedes: Hamilton & Rosberg
-Ferrari: Vettel & Kimi
-Red Bull: Ricciardo & Verstappen
-McLaren: Alonso & Vandoorne
-Renault: Magnussen & Kyvat
-Williams: Bottas & Button
-Force: Perez & Hulkenberg
-Toro Rosso: Gasly & Sainz
-Sauber: Ericsson & Nasr
-Haas: Grosjean & Gutierrez
-Manor: Wehrlein & Rossi
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."
iotar__ wrote:
- Massa - it's about age and declining performance. Do they need a Brazilian or what to sell cars there? OK, driver for a season and then what, they'll take Piquet jr ? It doesn't make sense at all.
I also think that is a bit overrated this "big market" thing. It is not enough to put a driver in a seat, but is a good reason to add in the equation. I dont think his performance is declining. This season he is beating Bottas consistently and is the only driver to finish all the races in the points so far.
iotar__ wrote:
- Massa - it's about age and declining performance. Do they need a Brazilian or what to sell cars there? OK, driver for a season and then what, they'll take Piquet jr ? It doesn't make sense at all.
I also think that is a bit overrated this "big market" thing. It is not enough to put a driver in a seat, but is a good reason to add in the equation. I dont think his performance is declining. This season he is beating Bottas consistently and is the only driver to finish all the races in the points so far.
I think it's all got to depend where Renault thinks it's going to be in '17 with the new rules and how they will market it. No need for an expensive driver is you're still in a development year (McLarens mistake for '15 and '16). This year was very clear, capable drivers but on the very bottom end of what they need to pay. Medium earning drivers with the experience and capabilities to bring a car home and shine from time to time might be a very good option. I think Kvyat and Massa are just those drivers. It would prob cost them around 6mln for the pair.
Regarding Renault, lets look at what they actually want:
“When the drivers were chosen the focus was already on 2018 and 2019,” Vasseur told Formula1.com. “That goes for the car side as well as for the driver side. We had to find the champion of 2019 - and not one from 2010.”
“If you look at the past, all the success stories were always based on drivers: Renault and Fernando Alonso, Michael Schumacher and Ferrari, Red Bull Racing and Sebastian Vettel,” he continued. “So we will build up the team on drivers. This is an investment, just as is the wind tunnel or the engine.”
“I see a couple of youngsters who could do it,” he commented. “[Max] Verstappen is probably one of them; Esteban Ocon has beaten him in F3; Kevin did a very good job in [Formula Renault] 3.5, where he was in front of [Stoffel] Vandoorne; Jolyon won the GP2 title in front of Vandoorne - and I keep Stoffel in very high regards.”
I think so far this season, it is fair to say that Palmer hasn't delivered. Magnussen has struggled at times, while performing well at others. Renault will probably consider replacing Palmer for 2017, if not already in 2016:
Acknowledging the 18-year-old Dutchman's feat, as well as Red Bull's policy with its drivers, Abiteboul told Autosport: "It is absolutely amazing.
"We are not really surprised because we worked with him when he was at Toro Rosso last year, and I've always been extremely impressed.
"But more than that we're impressed by the strategy of Red Bull overall, their capacity to go extreme, go for a target, the best, whatever it takes, whatever people will think.
"After all the criticism they are giving a big lesson to Formula 1, so we are going to use that also for our own benefit."
It's not at all unlikly that Ocon could actually been given the green light already for this season, possibly after the summer break. His nationality as well as the fact that he beat Verstappen in F3 surely plays to his advantage.
But I think it will not stop there. I think Renault would really want to evaluate Magnussen over the rest of the season. Why? They might want to get back Romain Grosjean.
The people at Enstone know how good he is. Know he can deliver on a regular basis, without making too many mistakes. Grosjean himself already seems a bit disillusioned regarding the Haas team. If and when Ferrari decide they want to continue with Kimi, Grosjean might want to find a better seat. What better then at his old team?
Kvyat to Renault is highly unlikely I think. He is not the stable, consistent driver Renault needs.
"He then had the crash with Kvyat, who was lapped, who was one or two laps behind, and who was f ucking aggressive.
"It's a shame because he destroyed Kevin's race. He had nothing to do - nothing to win, nothing to lose - being two laps behind.
I think 2017 will be an interesting year for five reasons:
- Kimi Raikoennen
- Nico Rosberg
- Felipe Massa
- Daniel Ricciardo
- Jensen Button / Fernando Alonso
On the top of my head, these are the drivers in front-running-teams where the contract situation is not settled. The most obvious is the Ferrari seat: Kimi Raikkonnen's contract is less than settled. He's on a one-year-year-by-year contract and I am not sure he'll retain his seat. Yes, he has been unlucky, but I am predicting that Ferrari will not be very happy with this years season. They've come into 2016 with high hopes of challenging for wins and at this point, I think it's not even certain they'll finish 2nd in the WCC. RedBull looks to be a strong contender for that and if that happens, heads will roll, changes will be made. I think Kimi is out.
Some have also suggested that Massa will likely lose his seat too. Under this assumption, I can see a free seat at Williams and Ferrari. Then there is also the situation of Nico Rosberg. His contract is up for renewal and even though signing there seems like a no-brainer, perhaps the higher ups at Mercedes will be looking at the "big picture". I highly rate Nico Rosberg, but statistically, he's been down on Lewis since 2013. Even though he might be leading the WDC at the moment, one can't ignore that Lewis has appeared stronger in qualifying and their head-to-head also in races isn't that representative. Rosberg is also playing out his cards by presumably speaking to Ferrari, even if that is just for the benefit of contract negotiations. But reality is: Rosberg has been at Mercedes for a long time and perhaps at some point, one has to consider an environment change, even if it means leaving a winning team. Lewis went through this phase at McLaren, Alonso at Ferrari, Vettel at RedBull.
For Mercedes this might open some sort of opportunity. And one has to ask, do they really need two exceptional drivers who are both same age and getting older? Lewis is locked in until the end of 2018 with his contract. They can either do a 3 year deal for Rosberg (until the end of 2019), but the problem with contracts like these are that both their drivers are getting older. Maybe it would make sense to bring in someone younger. Right now, the Mercedes seat is very attractive - it's the winning team and any driver would be a fool to pass it up. But no one knows what will happen 2 years down the road. If they do want to attract someone who is young and undoubtedly fast; IMO Ricciardo is the man to go for. And his contract situation is a bit of an unknown. If Ricciardo isn't available, I can't honestly see Mercedes wanting anyone else. Bottas - nope, I don't see it, don't rate him enough, Wehrlein even less. He might sound good because he is German and from their program, but nothing I have seen of him so far suggests he is worthy of that seat. Meanwhile, Ricciardo is the guy who is IMO one of the brightest prospects currently.
As I said, if he is unavailable, then I think retaining Rosberg is a no-brainer. Much will depend on if Rosberg is really considering an environment change (Ferrari?) and if Mercedes wants to invest into the future and a change of climate within their team with a new driver.
If Massa leaves, I have no idea who might want to fill that seat. IMO the Williams seat has lost its attractiveness now that the engines are closer in performance and they are falling back into becoming a glorified midfield team with a bit of history and heritage. I could possibly see a driver from the midfield team that is struggling a bit wanting to go there. Perhaps a Force India driver might end up in that Williams seat?
Coming back to Ferrari, I think Kimi will be out. Who will they put into that seat? I think Rosberg might be a very attractive prospect. A solid, consistent performer - exactly what Ferrari needs and what I think Kimi is there for. Rosberg is also indisputably quick, probably quicker than Kimi (at the current phase), so maybe he'd push Vettel to new lengths without upsetting the order too much. Maybe even beat him. Of course they might also rather want a driver like Ricciardo - who is also partly italian, but why would Ricciardo go there? Despite the name, the ethos, the history and passion, I fail to see them reaching the top step. I have more confidence in RedBull to get there, sadly. And I think Ricciardo is smart enough to know that he is too good to be wasting away at a team who just might not be good enough to win the WDC. That's all IMO of course based on the last 8 years.
Last point brings me to McLaren. IMO Button will be out and perhaps Vandoorne in. Alonso? Anything but a safe bet. I think at some point, reality will set in and I think he will call it a day and leave F1. Lots of promises, but no results to show for. I'd be genuinely surprised if McLaren shows big improvements this year - improvements of the kind that make you believe they could be contenders next year. I think they will steadily improve, but the more you improve, the tighter the competition gets. As a former bit of a McLaren fan, it pains me to say that I don't have any confidence in their ability to become the team they once were. The claims of Alonso that McLaren will be the only team to challenge Mercedes are IMO detached from reality.
In 2017 I see Mercedes and RedBull to be the two top contenders. RedBull because their aero pedigree is not to be underestimated. Ferrari, perhaps close, but not quite there. McLaren - no way, I don't see it happening. If Alonso leaves, sadly, I think McLaren will fall back further behind into insignificance.
I think the driver puzzle will fall into place once we know what Mercedes/Rosberg does and if and who Ferrari might let Kimi go...
My two cents.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
iotar__ wrote:
- Massa - it's about age and declining performance. Do they need a Brazilian or what to sell cars there? OK, driver for a season and then what, they'll take Piquet jr ? It doesn't make sense at all.
I also think that is a bit overrated this "big market" thing. It is not enough to put a driver in a seat, but is a good reason to add in the equation. I dont think his performance is declining. This season he is beating Bottas consistently and is the only driver to finish all the races in the points so far.
Absolutely, I would say that his performance is quite good and I tend to be more disappointed with Botas.
What abbout Sauber? Ericsson is doing a much better job than in 2015, so he may continue in 2017.
Let's talk about some potential drivers from the midfield, that could be options for Ferrari....
Sergio Perez
The guy has great race craft and has been a steady and consistent performer, ever since McLaren ditched him. I think he was too excited at McLaren and unable to bear the shock that, McLaren was screwed up in 2013. He tried to outdo himself and committed too many mistakes. But ever since in Force India, he has been a solid performer. Whenever the car was upto the mark, he kept finishing in top 10 and compared to Nico Hulkenberg who was rated very highly, Checko's performances have been far more consistent and high quality. Last year, he outscored his team mate by 20 points !!! In a car, that is at best is contender for 7 to 10 places, 20 points advantage is quite large. 2 Podium finish in Force India (15-16) and consistent top 10 finishes should make him a contender for Ferrari, IF Ferrari wants to do away with Kimi and doesn't get Ricciardo/Rosberg. He is also a product of Ferrari Driver academy.
Romain Grosjean
Slightly more proven quantity, at his time in Lotus in 2013 (quite strong in the second half) and this year with Haas. He is quick and has shown great racing skills too. Being nearer to Ferrari and them having access to his all his data, should provide a good idea about his strength. When an opportunity came, he got a shock podium finish last year in Spa.
Star for the future/Young driver..... BS
It doesn't happen and has never happened. There isn't a team that hired a young, promising and talented driver, groomed him alongside a champion driver and over the long run, he became a champion. That just doesn't happen. F1 has always been about cashing in when you are hot. Jenson Button wasn't an "A" league driver and no top team was behind him from 2000-2010 and suddenly, he drove well that OUT OF THE BLUE, QUICK BRAWN GP car to a title and he was a star! Webber was more like today's Gutierrez and suddenly, the Red Bull was quick and he was a driver in a top team and contended for a title in 2010. On a contrasting note, Lewis jumped in a fast car in 2007 and suddenly, he was competing for a title. Same with Vettel, albeit a year later.
My point is, you can't have a RISING driver that you can encash at a later point in time. Simple. You either get first rate, that compete from the word go, tooth and nail OR you get a second rate.
Phil wrote:
For Mercedes this might open some sort of opportunity. And one has to ask, do they really need two exceptional drivers who are both same age and getting older? Lewis is locked in until the end of 2018 with his contract. They can either do a 3 year deal for Rosberg (until the end of 2019), but the problem with contracts like these are that both their drivers are getting older. Maybe it would make sense to bring in someone younger. Right now, the Mercedes seat is very attractive - it's the winning team and any driver would be a fool to pass it up. But no one knows what will happen 2 years down the road. If they do want to attract someone who is young and undoubtedly fast; IMO Ricciardo is the man to go for. And his contract situation is a bit of an unknown. If Ricciardo isn't available, I can't honestly see Mercedes wanting anyone else. Bottas - nope, I don't see it, don't rate him enough, Wehrlein even less.
Wehrlein the DTM champion and guy who "beat" Hamilton in equal cars, or another one that the rest of us aren't familiar with?
Phil wrote:I think 2017 will be an interesting year for five reasons:
- Kimi Raikoennen
- Nico Rosberg
- Felipe Massa
- Daniel Ricciardo
- Jensen Button / Fernando Alonso
- Raikkonen - staying, he's Marchionne's idea. If they want to challenge Merc/RB they should replace him (or both) with 1. Grosjean/Bottas or 2. Grosjean/Rosberg if Mercedes are stupid enough (they're not). It won't happen either way, selling car matters, on track failures don't.
- Rosberg - staying, who'd be the replacement? From team's side It's just games and leash like you saw in Monaco.
- Massa - don't know, why would they get rid of him, money? Keeping Massa makes more sense than other teams hiring him (Renault). Replacing him with ancient Button - only marketing (nationality).
- Ricciardo - staying, storm in a tea-cup, two bad calls, still 2nd, 4th, PP and they are making him a martyr, second best and potentially best car, very lucky driver overall
- Button/Alonso - Alonso staying, Button I don't know, see Williams/Massa. I don't know who's really making drivers decisions at McL.
Phil wrote:
For Mercedes this might open some sort of opportunity. And one has to ask, do they really need two exceptional drivers who are both same age and getting older? Lewis is locked in until the end of 2018 with his contract. They can either do a 3 year deal for Rosberg (until the end of 2019), but the problem with contracts like these are that both their drivers are getting older. Maybe it would make sense to bring in someone younger. Right now, the Mercedes seat is very attractive - it's the winning team and any driver would be a fool to pass it up. But no one knows what will happen 2 years down the road. If they do want to attract someone who is young and undoubtedly fast; IMO Ricciardo is the man to go for. And his contract situation is a bit of an unknown. If Ricciardo isn't available, I can't honestly see Mercedes wanting anyone else. Bottas - nope, I don't see it, don't rate him enough, Wehrlein even less.
Wehrlein the DTM champion and guy who "beat" Hamilton in equal cars, or another one that the rest of us aren't familiar with?
Stratergy comes to play as well. With the all over prediction that at least RedBull will challenge Mercedes is 2017 (and maybe Ferrari) you can't afford to have your drivers taking away points from each other. Examples: Mansell-Piquet, Alonso-Hamilton. What you need is a real number one (like Schumacher in his days) with a steady number two (Heikki, Rubens, Massa, etc). For this strategy Bottas would be an excellent choice. Plus he's managed by a Toto Wolf cooperation. Just on a one or two year deal, to secure a good 2017 and build from there again.
Phil wrote:
For Mercedes this might open some sort of opportunity. And one has to ask, do they really need two exceptional drivers who are both same age and getting older? Lewis is locked in until the end of 2018 with his contract. They can either do a 3 year deal for Rosberg (until the end of 2019), but the problem with contracts like these are that both their drivers are getting older. Maybe it would make sense to bring in someone younger. Right now, the Mercedes seat is very attractive - it's the winning team and any driver would be a fool to pass it up. But no one knows what will happen 2 years down the road. If they do want to attract someone who is young and undoubtedly fast; IMO Ricciardo is the man to go for. And his contract situation is a bit of an unknown. If Ricciardo isn't available, I can't honestly see Mercedes wanting anyone else. Bottas - nope, I don't see it, don't rate him enough, Wehrlein even less.
Wehrlein the DTM champion and guy who "beat" Hamilton in equal cars, or another one that the rest of us aren't familiar with?
Stratergy comes to play as well. With the all over prediction that at least RedBull will challenge Mercedes is 2017 (and maybe Ferrari) you can't afford to have your drivers taking away points from each other. Examples: Mansell-Piquet, Alonso-Hamilton. What you need is a real number one (like Schumacher in his days) with a steady number two (Heikki, Rubens, Massa, etc). For this strategy Bottas would be an excellent choice. Plus he's managed by a Toto Wolf cooperation. Just on a one or two year deal, to secure a good 2017 and build from there again.
Depends really... I mean at the moment, nothing is official yet, so for instance Vandoorne is still available. If he isn't in a Mclaren next season, Mercedes might want to lure him away if there's a seat available at Mercedes. I think Vandoorne might be aware of what the potential can be with a combo of Merc-Vandoorne.
