Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Looks like RedBull has split the CE in two, one in the bottom of the side pod at each side. The cables look to be very on the surface. With a simple side impact they might be exposed... don't know if the safety light tells if a wire is merely exposed?

NL_Fer
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Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Daniel Ricciardo believes Red Bull's Renault Formula 1 engine is now on a par with Ferrari.

Red Bull started the year trailing Mercedes and Ferrari, and Ricciardo feels the Renault power unit - rebadged as TAG Heuer over the winter - has made considerable strides to enable the team's already strong chassis to thrive.

"At the start of the year we went into Melbourne not really expecting much compared to the end of last year," said Ricciardo.

"But we came in with more horsepower, and then the update helped, and we've found a little bit more and a little bit more since then.

"It's been a nice refreshing improvement on both sides - the chassis is working well with the power unit.

"We're now pretty much on par with the '16 Ferrari [engine], and that's positive. They made a really big step last year.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... -ricciardo

Not bad, even without TJi. Wonder what they were doing in 2015.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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They were still slow in S1 and S3 despite running low wings.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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NL_Fer wrote:
Daniel Ricciardo believes Red Bull's Renault Formula 1 engine is now on a par with Ferrari.

Red Bull started the year trailing Mercedes and Ferrari, and Ricciardo feels the Renault power unit - rebadged as TAG Heuer over the winter - has made considerable strides to enable the team's already strong chassis to thrive.

"At the start of the year we went into Melbourne not really expecting much compared to the end of last year," said Ricciardo.

"But we came in with more horsepower, and then the update helped, and we've found a little bit more and a little bit more since then.

"It's been a nice refreshing improvement on both sides - the chassis is working well with the power unit.

"We're now pretty much on par with the '16 Ferrari [engine], and that's positive. They made a really big step last year.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... -ricciardo

Not bad, even without TJi. Wonder what they were doing in 2015.
The do have TJI though. :wink:
That is "the light" that they saw, according to Cyril.
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zack!
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Joined: 23 Dec 2013, 12:16

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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I read TJI will be for 2017 spec. They said they were not able to fully control the turbulence caused by the TJI in the chamber in the 2016 design / timeframe. I had a hope of late introduction in 2016, but my guess is that it is more effective to do one big design change with test, rather than 2...

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Pierce89
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Juzh wrote:They were still slow in S1 and S3 despite running low wings.
Compared the Merc, yeah, compared to the Ferrari, not so much.
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FPV GTHO
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Joined: 22 Mar 2016, 05:57

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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zack! wrote:I read TJI will be for 2017 spec. They said they were not able to fully control the turbulence caused by the TJI in the chamber in the 2016 design / timeframe. I had a hope of late introduction in 2016, but my guess is that it is more effective to do one big design change with test, rather than 2...
If it even is TJI they're using, Mercedes for example has denied using both HCCI and TJI now so why couldn't Renault or Honda be working on further lean burn developments?

As far as Renault "seeing the light", that could simply be in relation to pre chamber ignition or something vague like that. AFAIK TJI was a more specific development by Mahle.

hemichromis
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Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 15:00

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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FPV GTHO wrote:
zack! wrote:I read TJI will be for 2017 spec. They said they were not able to fully control the turbulence caused by the TJI in the chamber in the 2016 design / timeframe. I had a hope of late introduction in 2016, but my guess is that it is more effective to do one big design change with test, rather than 2...
If it even is TJI they're using, Mercedes for example has denied using both HCCI and TJI now so why couldn't Renault or Honda be working on further lean burn developments?

As far as Renault "seeing the light", that could simply be in relation to pre chamber ignition or something vague like that. AFAIK TJI was a more specific development by Mahle.
Where did they deny this?
Maybe they use a different abbreviation.

NL_Fer
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Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Every team will deny it is TJi, otherwise they will have to pay royalties to Mahle. But it will probably be comparable. Just like seamless shift, it has to many patents.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Pierce89 wrote:
Juzh wrote:They were still slow in S1 and S3 despite running low wings.
Compared the Merc, yeah, compared to the Ferrari, not so much.
I mean, they weren't horendously slow, but there was a difference still. I've followed live timing trough qualifying and they were consistently down few tenths. What Ric probably meant was that on full tilt they're more or less equal, but in spa it seemed ferrari's ers was just that tiny bit more efficient. They had quite a bit more wing and still had higher speeds on top of raidilon and S1 speed traps.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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FPV GTHO wrote:
zack! wrote:I read TJI will be for 2017 spec. They said they were not able to fully control the turbulence caused by the TJI in the chamber in the 2016 design / timeframe. I had a hope of late introduction in 2016, but my guess is that it is more effective to do one big design change with test, rather than 2...
If it even is TJI they're using, Mercedes for example has denied using both HCCI and TJI now so why couldn't Renault or Honda be working on further lean burn developments?

As far as Renault "seeing the light", that could simply be in relation to pre chamber ignition or something vague like that. AFAIK TJI was a more specific development by Mahle.
HCCI was already out of the game from day one. only people with little knowledge were spreading HCCI as a method used in f1.
It is not true that Merc openly denied TJI. It is evident they have it, I would hazard and say it is the same Mahle design too. But Mahle doesn't have a sponsorship deal with Mercedes; they have a deal with Ferrari, so Mercedes is not allowed to announce that they use Mahle.
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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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How are you so sure Mercedes is using anything but something developed in house? They have the money, the infrastructure, the technology, and the brains to manufacture their own system. Does Mercedes make turbos? Check, do they make electric motors? Check, are they part of one of the largest companies on Earth? Check. Also Daimler AG also owns almost 4% of Nissan-Renault, the company brings in 156 billion euros in yearly revenue. You think a company like that couldn't make a version of a prechamber plasma jet injector so slick and so advanced that puts all the other car makers to shame? You think Mercedes, who makes Ferrari seem like a customer team by comparison, has to depend on Mahle for their system? Or Honda or Renault for that matter? Well Honda has to depend on Magneti Marelli supposedly because they supply them with their system, which is curious when you consider this http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... t-ireppnz7..
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NL_Fer
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Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Existing jet ignition systems involve the creation of hot gas jets from a pre-chamber which are then introduced into the cylinder where they rapidly induce ignition of the main in-cylinder charge. MAHLE’s TJI system is characterised by auxiliary pre-chamber fuelling, small orifices connecting the main and pre-chamber combustion cavities and a very small pre-chamber volume. The smaller orifice size causes turbulence in the hot gas jets which then penetrate deeper into the main combustion chamber and cause a distributed ignition effect. This process then allows extension of knock limits and increased compression ratios (up to 14:1) combined with lower combustion temperatures and reduced throttling / pumping losses to achieve thermal efficiencies in the region of 45%.
This is from Mahle themselfs. They don't deny then existence of other gas/gasoline pre-chamber systems. So maybe they are asking the wrong question to the teams. Are u using a pre-chamber ignition system would be better, although i doubt they would give some more clarity.

FPV GTHO
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Joined: 22 Mar 2016, 05:57

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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I think that's quite likely people are assuming all pre chamber systems are TJI, just like dual clutch gearboxes are largely referred to as DSG's

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