2017-2020 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

[OO7]

the reference year for time improvements is 2015, not 2016.

There was a large jump this year due to tyres alone I believe?

[OO7]

I really don't think we will see that sort of a jump. Yes the cars will initially be 3 to 4 seconds a lap quicker than the current cars, but they will not gain another 3 to 4 seconds a lap by the end of the year through development, that would make them up to 8 seconds a lap quicker than 2016!!! The most the 'sorted' cars will gain is around a second.

Pirelli itself is estimating that the cars will be ~3 seconds faster to start and as much as 5-6 seconds by the end. The tires alone being an average of 70mm wider should bring at least a 2.75 second advantage and another second from the chassis. Then the gains from the engine/chassis integration, aero optimization, suspension development, power unit gains, and finally exploiting and understanding the new tires. That's easily another second and a half at least. So there's close to 6 seconds right there.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'd be very surprised if the teams find that much time. That sort of improvement ( 2 - 3 seconds) usually comes about when a team has seriously messed up at the start of the season.

[godlameroso]

the reference year for time improvements is 2015, not 2016.

The was a large jump this year due to tyres alone I believe?

It's hard to quantify, on the one hand there are softer compounds at every track this year, on the other hand the construction is different to last year's. Many drivers reporting during winter testing that the tires felt harder than last year's, but this could be due to the ridiculous tire pressures Pirelli was mandating.

[FPV GTHO]

I think amongst the manufacturer teams and Red Bull, they've all got different reasons to anticipate big gains. Thr Renault and Honda cars are expected to make big engine games, Mercedes might prove the cynics correct who have suggested they've been hiding their pace since 2014 and step up to 100% if pushed all season. Ferrari and Renault might start weak but develop an extra 1-2 seconds over the others through the year.

[godlameroso]

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... t=&act=url

Pirelli Chairman Marco Tronchetti Provera stated: "In the coming Formula 1 season, the cars will be faster by 4.5 seconds per lap according to our calculations. The tires accounting for 2.5 seconds and the rest will be aero "

...because we assume that the racing teams will achieve great progress during the season in the light of the new regulations.

[zztopless]

Assuming Pirelli actually do produce the better tyres they are for (greatly reducing thermal degradation/narrow operating window) without making the compounds rock hard, or going even higher on the tyre pressures, then I don't see how lap times aren't going to be at least 4 seconds faster come Melbourne.

While the jury is definitely still out on whether they can produce tyres whose degradation is largely determined by wear, rather than thermal degradation (that is far too easily induced with the narrow operating window of their current tyres), as this will be their first attempt at moving away from their 2011 'designed to degrade' (not blaming Pirelli for this, they produced what was asked of them, just pointing out, it is yet to be seen whether they can produce tyres closer to the Bridgestones of 2010 (only non-Pirelli year post refuelling, so the only fair comparison).

However, given they've been talking about the large expected gains just from the wider tyres, I don't think they can afford to go much softer with their compounds (and with the three compound rule, they would have to go quite a bit harder to negate teams loading up of the softest compound and only using one of the harder options for one short stint) and I certainly don't think they will want to increase pressures any further given they negative PR they've received from the drivers in particular. On top of that, even if they aren't able engineer tyres with wider operating ranges and far less thermal degradation, they will at least want to take some credit for the much faster qualifying times.

They do seem to be taking preparations for next year seriously, with the first mule-car tests having happened relatively early (at least as far as testing and putting thought into rules changes goes these days *cough elimination qualifying*). I am encouraged that they are demanding more downforce from the next round of testing from the Big Three, and you would think it would be in their interest of those teams to comply, given they are likely to be the cars with the most downforce next year and would most want tyres that allow them to make the most of it.

[godlameroso]

The modified mules are year old chassis with patchwork aero bits, nothing they're doing will translate well to next year. I expect lap times on a full tank will be the same as around 2010 levels during winter testing. Gaining maybe another 1.5 seconds during the season is entirely possible, maybe 2 seconds.

[strad]

, nothing they're doing will translate well to next year

If that were true, why would they waste time and money on doing it??

[wuzak]

, nothing they're doing will translate well to next year

If that were true, why would they waste time and money on doing it??

Maybe hoping they can get a better idea of how the tyres work.

[FPV GTHO]

Bridgestone in 2010 might be the only fair comparison with no refueling, but I think it's reasonable to assume had Bridgestone not left at the end of 2010 they would've developed their tyres differently

[strad]

Wuzak, I was being a bit facetious. There's no way they just throw away money on something where """""nothing they're doing will translate well to next year""""". I think they are smarter with their money than that.
Not that they don't waste enough to support all of us here for a few years.

[godlameroso]

Well Pirelli themselves are saying the mules don't have enough downforce, not to mention they're using a year old chassis with aero concepts that have nothing to do with next years regulations. Aside from getting a feel for the tires I don't know what else they can translate to next year that they won't be getting at the end of year test.

[strad]

Every minute on track supplies information for some area.

[FrukostScones]

AMUS: Will it be a Pullman or a Coach? Or both?

Is the extra long wheelbase the holy grail to conquering all 2017 bargeboardery and beyond???

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

[F1NAC]

Sebastian Vettel feels the mule cars used to test Pirelli's 2017 tyres do not provide a fair reflection of the actual downforce next year's F1 single-seaters will have.

Vettel has been one of the drivers in charge of carrying out testing duties for the tyre manufacturer, using a 2015 car fitted with skirts and a bigger rear wing to simulate next year's downforce.

However, Pirelli has already expressed concerns that the downforce levels are around 20 percent short of what it actually needs and is in discussions with the FIA to try to find a solution.

Vettel said the grip levels with the wider 2017 tyres did not feel much higher than with the current rubber.

"You need to speak to Pirelli, obviously. With the tyre testing we are a bit blind," said Vettel. "We get to test different tyres and then we give our feedback.

"I think Pirelli is still in the early days and there is still a lot of change so I'm quite keen to find out the last test in Abu Dhabi, which I think it's probably closer to what we'll have next year, but even from then to next year I think there will be some changes.

"I think the tyres in terms of grip are fairly similar to what we have now, probably a little bit better, but I think the interim car is also not entirely fair.

"So a lot of it is still blind but to get a first idea I think it's heading in the right direction, but for details you'd have to speak to Pirelli as they are not giving us much information."

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