2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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BeardedAce
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by BeardedAce » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:12 pm

Been watching James may's "Cars Of the People" these last couple of days and he explains how Japanese have been always obsessed with producing small, revvy, fuel-efficient engines.
It all makes sense considering how Honda have been aiming to make the Smallest efficient PU on the grid

diffuser
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by diffuser » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:05 pm

BeardedAce wrote:Been watching James may's "Cars Of the People" these last couple of days and he explains how Japanese have been always obsessed with producing small, revvy, fuel-efficient engines.
It all makes sense considering how Honda have been aiming to make the Smallest efficient PU on the grid

I think that is everyone's aim. Smallest, lightest and most powerful.

Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Andres125sx » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:46 pm

diffuser wrote:
BeardedAce wrote:Been watching James may's "Cars Of the People" these last couple of days and he explains how Japanese have been always obsessed with producing small, revvy, fuel-efficient engines.
It all makes sense considering how Honda have been aiming to make the Smallest efficient PU on the grid

I think that is everyone's aim. Smallest, lightest and most powerful.
But not everyone lives on a country where max power of production engines is limited so japaneese manufacturers (traditionally) have only been allowed to improve efficiency and weight.

More or less the opposite to US manufacturers, who traditionally only care about bigger is better and use engines wich are around 3x or even 4x japaneese engines in displacement, size and weight

Mercedes for example, despite being european, also follow the bigger is better route, with several >3l engines

But japanesse don´t produce big engines, they have always been on a different route wich now also apply on F1, so I guess that´s what he meant. Japanese manufacturers should excel on current F1 era, as the conditions (limited fuel) are very similar to their traditional way of life where power was limited and they could only improve efficiency and weight

diffuser
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by diffuser » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:00 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
diffuser wrote:
BeardedAce wrote:Been watching James may's "Cars Of the People" these last couple of days and he explains how Japanese have been always obsessed with producing small, revvy, fuel-efficient engines.
It all makes sense considering how Honda have been aiming to make the Smallest efficient PU on the grid

I think that is everyone's aim. Smallest, lightest and most powerful.
But not everyone lives on a country where max power of production engines is limited so japaneese manufacturers (traditionally) have only been allowed to improve efficiency and weight.

More or less the opposite to US manufacturers, who traditionally only care about bigger is better and use engines wich are around 3x or even 4x japaneese engines in displacement, size and weight

Mercedes for example, despite being european, also follow the bigger is better route, with several >3l engines

But japanesse don´t produce big engines, they have always been on a different route wich now also apply on F1, so I guess that´s what he meant. Japanese manufacturers should excel on current F1 era, as the conditions (limited fuel) are very similar to their traditional way of life where power was limited and they could only improve efficiency and weight

I thought we were talking about F1.

Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Andres125sx » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:22 pm

BeardedAce wrote:Been watching James may's "Cars Of the People" these last couple of days and he explains how Japanese have been always obsessed with producing small, revvy, fuel-efficient engines.
:wink:

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:16 am

I think in japan that 280bhp limit was only a gentleman's agreement for maybe only a decade or two.. The actual cars were even pushing out more when dynoed. But still i agree with the piint though.

I am a big BMW fan and i used to believe BMW made the best of everything on engines and japanese were not good wnough. But looking back through history even in the early 2000's and working on cars (hobby)... I now realize that the japanese engine makers had more advanced knowledge of engine combustion than BMW had in the nineties and naughties... There were features in and around the engine that BMW didnt have. BMW was very good at introducing novel concepts likeand valvetronic, peizo injecyors, very light weight engines.. But they sorta lost focus on refinement and efficiency. Toyota for example had better power and efficiency figures on comparable engines. There engine were also less problematic. I remeber how the valvetronic used to easily get detroyed (that vacuum pump thingy).. And all those cracked plastic engine parts.. Ugh.. And fuel efficiency was below advertized. When i drive toyota is nothing special. But i realise the engineering on the bmw while different, was not necessairly better.
Anyways.. Things sorta balanced out after awhile and most mass production automakers are pretty much level now when it comes to engine optimizations.
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NL_Fer
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by NL_Fer » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:05 am

KeiKo403 wrote:A bit OT but just look at how many sponsors was on the PDLR race suit! They were the days ay....


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Most are still in F1, but on other cars...

Ontopic: How is McLaren's hydraulic suspension? Seems like that was something that gave Mercedes and Redbull their superiority last season.

Pany
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Pany » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:37 am

Yes is extremely important in this moment to know something more about MClaren suspension. Any clues or ideas or pictures?
It seems now Mercedes was so superior in 2016 due to advanced hydraulic suspension. IF that is the case it means on engine side we were wrong and seems that engines in 2016 had very little power and efficiency difference. Consequently we may presume in 2017 these little differences will be even smaller if not nullified. Seems that aero and suspension dynamics will play the major role, hence redbul and Mclaren may catch-up with mercedes. Unfortunately Ferrari il likely to loose 4° position

Alonso Fan
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Alonso Fan » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:33 pm

Yes suspension was a problem but so was the engine. BBC claims that Honda were 60-100bhp down, Renault 40-60 down and Ferrari around 10 down on Mercedes. BBC's most recent numbers appear here:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38530543
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GoranF1
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by GoranF1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Alonso Fan wrote:Yes suspension was a problem but so was the engine. BBC claims that Honda were 60-100bhp down, Renault 40-60 down and Ferrari around 10 down on Mercedes. BBC's most recent numbers appear here:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38530543
Maybe Mclaren suspensio wasnt wrong just normal...asopposed to ilegal systems on Merc&RB.
That would put Mclaren from 3rd to best chassis of the field... :D :D :D
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RedNEO
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by RedNEO » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:53 pm

So presuming redbull and merc get there illegal suspension outlawed then McLaren should strike when the iron is still hot!

Alonso Fan
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Alonso Fan » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:00 pm

Let's see what happens. Over the years, supporting Alonso has taught me not to keep my hopes up too much incase things don't go well
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shady
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by shady » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:55 pm

AMGs suspension is not illegal, and they have said as much in response to the TD issued. As I dont believe it contravenes the rules as written, RBR otoh.. is reportedly using a "hydromechanical valve actuated logic gate system" to move the heave spring seat affecting ride height through a lap.

RedNEO
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by RedNEO » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:38 am

Alonso Fan wrote:Let's see what happens. Over the years, supporting Alonso has taught me not to keep my hopes up too much incase things don't go well
Yeah well you know, hope dies last 'n all.

RedNEO
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by RedNEO » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:44 am

shady wrote:AMGs suspension is not illegal, and they have said as much in response to the TD issued. As I dont believe it contravenes the rules as written, RBR otoh.. is reportedly using a "hydromechanical valve actuated logic gate system" to move the heave spring seat affecting ride height through a lap.
Interesting. So you are positive we will see it again this year?



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