Renault V6 Power Unit

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
ME4ME
121
User avatar
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by ME4ME » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:52 pm

Probably that the architecture that was introduced in late 2015 formed the base for the 2016 unit. Since Melbourne, Renault have only introduced minor (but effective) upgrades and have been able to do their homework for 2017 knowing the token system would be disregarded.

NL_Fer
32
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by NL_Fer » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:22 am

roon wrote:
NL_Fer wrote:But it really depends on what the research team already has pre-cooked on the testbenches in 2015. The tokenrule was dropped almost beginning of 2016, they can develop some crazy stuff in a years time.
What do you mean by your first sentence? 2015 somehow limiting 2016 open development in preparation for 2017.
What is mean is, it depends if Renault was already researching in 2015 for pu designs, which would be possible if the tokenrule was banned. Or did they only used resources to test improvements of the pu, limited by the tokenrule.

yener
5
User avatar
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 11:00 pm

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by yener » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:45 am

No the token system was not a restriction to test a new PU for 2016, the token system has nothing to do with that. The token only restricted major changes on a PU. So they can develop a new PU but couldn't use it.

On the 2017 PU i think they have designed and tested it since the decision of the FIA of getting rid of the token system. So they are testing since feb 2016. That's long enough to have a good reliable PU
Alonso: All the time you have to keep the space!

Vladimir
0
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:43 am

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Vladimir » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:37 am

And there is enough time for designing new car around that all new PU. In 2017. that will be crucial. All PU will have more or less the same power output. So chaise and reliability will play main part. Compare Red Bull and Renault F1 car in 2016.

Gothrek
3
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:06 pm

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Gothrek » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:27 am

Vladimir wrote:And there is enough time for designing new car around that all new PU. In 2017. that will be crucial. All PU will have more or less the same power output. So chaise and reliability will play main part. Compare Red Bull and Renault F1 car in 2016.
Maybe as of 2018 all PU will have about the same power output and efficiency. There are 2 brands creating an all new concept, Honda and Renault. You cannot expect that an all new design will have the same power output as the Mercedes.

Vladimir
0
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:43 am

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Vladimir » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:39 am

Maybe as of 2018 all PU will have about the same power output and efficiency. There are 2 brands creating an all new concept, Honda and Renault. You cannot expect that an all new design will have the same power output as the Mercedes.[/quote]
Maybe I can't expect the same power, but they will have more power in 2017 PU, than in 2016 PU for sure ;-)
And Mercedes design reach it's limits already in 2016. They could improve efficiency and reliability. Power advantage will be very minimal.

Robbobnob
36
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 3:03 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Robbobnob » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:34 pm

Vladimir wrote:Maybe as of 2018 all PU will have about the same power output and efficiency. There are 2 brands creating an all new concept, Honda and Renault. You cannot expect that an all new design will have the same power output as the Mercedes.
Maybe I can't expect the same power, but they will have more power in 2017 PU, than in 2016 PU for sure ;-)
And Mercedes design reach it's limits already in 2016. They could improve efficiency and reliability. Power advantage will be very minimal.[/quote]

In the same way that Renault and Honda have the ability to have a wholesale change to their core concept, Mercedes and Ferrari also get the same opportunity. Merc might have reached the limitation of their current concept due to a fundamental architecture which would have cost considerable tokens to change where they could afford to keep developing their current architecture as it still offered considerable performance gains with respect to their competition.
"I continuously go further and further learning about my own limitations, my body limitations, psychological limitations. It's a way of life for me." - Ayrton Senna

roon
100
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by roon » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:12 pm

Merc might maintain their engine advantages, I won't be surprised if they do. But technologies do mature within a given ruleset. Weren't the V8s pretty equal by the end of their era? F1 had become an aero & chassis formula then, away from an engine formula. So we might be moving back into an engine-equalized, aero-differentiated era again. Perhaps another reason for Nico's quick departure...

NL_Fer
32
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by NL_Fer » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:27 am

In 2009 the v8 was equalized and frozen till the end. No natural maturing here.

Even v10 was being developed in 2005, after 10 years.

roon
100
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by roon » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:16 am

Equalized by what parameters? Not contesting you, just curious. In comparison to how the V6s are somewhat equalized as well, considering the specificity of their regulations.

carisi2k
4
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by carisi2k » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:22 am

NL_Fer wrote:In 2009 the v8 was equalized and frozen till the end. No natural maturing here.

Even v10 was being developed in 2005, after 10 years.
Yes the v8 was frozen again in 2009 but even still mercedes had unreleased potential in there engine freeze and that allowed them to continue adding hp with a frozen spec engine. Renault used there design to power the blown diffusers which the mercedes and ferrari engine was not designed to do. Hence why Red Bull was able to get the most of this ability in the later years of the v8 formula.

Pierce89
93
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Pierce89 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:07 am

roon wrote:Equalized by what parameters? Not contesting you, just curious. In comparison to how the V6s are somewhat equalized as well, considering the specificity of their regulations.
They let Renault have a solo upgrade to get closer in power because the other 2 were already near as dammit in power. That was their "equalization" . The only parameter was peak power within the new 18k rev limit.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

ReoPTy
-29
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:44 am

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by ReoPTy » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:19 am

carisi2k wrote:
NL_Fer wrote:In 2009 the v8 was equalized and frozen till the end. No natural maturing here.

Even v10 was being developed in 2005, after 10 years.
Yes the v8 was frozen again in 2009 but even still mercedes had unreleased potential in there engine freeze and that allowed them to continue adding hp with a frozen spec engine. Renault used there design to power the blown diffusers which the mercedes and ferrari engine was not designed to do. Hence why Red Bull was able to get the most of this ability in the later years of the v8 formula.
at least in this v8 aera renault created something by themselves with fair competition to win with a bit less power, and wasn't ridicusly granted by fia token or freeze as mercedes was last 3 years to keep their "advantage " threating to quit F1 reducing to zero any competition

Juzh
196
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Juzh » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:40 am

Pierce89 wrote:
roon wrote:Equalized by what parameters? Not contesting you, just curious. In comparison to how the V6s are somewhat equalized as well, considering the specificity of their regulations.
They let Renault have a solo upgrade to get closer in power because the other 2 were already near as dammit in power. That was their "equalization" . The only parameter was peak power within the new 18k rev limit.
Ferrari was allowed a "reliability" upgrade after their malaysian failure in 2010, gaining them 8 bhp.

wuzak
293
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by wuzak » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:24 pm

Juzh wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:
roon wrote:Equalized by what parameters? Not contesting you, just curious. In comparison to how the V6s are somewhat equalized as well, considering the specificity of their regulations.
They let Renault have a solo upgrade to get closer in power because the other 2 were already near as dammit in power. That was their "equalization" . The only parameter was peak power within the new 18k rev limit.
Ferrari was allowed a "reliability" upgrade after their malaysian failure in 2010, gaining them 8 bhp.
Another reliability upgrade was a modification to the pneumatic valve return system, which allowed them to improve fuel efficiency - something that had become important when refuelling was banned.