2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Morteza
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Morteza » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:28 am

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Morteza » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:59 am

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

turbof1
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by turbof1 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Morteza wrote:Ex-Ferrari chief Allison joins Mercedes F1 as technical director

Finally! The rumors are over
Anything can happen, but I think Allison is going to love working at Mercedes. He has almost unlimited resources at Mercedes (with exception on cfd, windtunnel and tracktesting) and the company culture is a lot more open at Mercedes.

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:28 pm

Well well well....

Look like i was mostly right and slightly wrong at the same time about James replacing Paddy.

It sorta hints why Paddy left too. Wolff does not like to share too much power.. lets see if he allows James to give the final say on the radio to the drivers.
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by kooleracer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:08 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:Well well well....

Look like i was mostly right and slightly wrong at the same time about James replacing Paddy.

It sorta hints why Paddy left too. Wolff does not like to share too much power.. lets see if he allows James to give the final say on the radio to the drivers.
Wolff does not like to share too much power
Where do you get that idea from?
1. He shared an office with Paddy.
2. He did not intrude on the technical side with Paddy.
3. He did not even talked on the radio trackside.

Come on man, if there ever was a F1 manager who knows how to delegate it is Wolff. In most of his interviews he always talks about the organization and the strength of the team. People in Mercedes feel really happy en free under his leadership more so than even under Ross. Ross was more of a one man show, he did all of it, track related, fia related and everything Brackley related. Toto is the opposite of Ross when it comes to sharing power. His big thing is accountability, he gives you the freedom but expects results. He is more of a people manager and he shares the spoils, that is why Aldo, Willis, Elliot and Cowell are still their after Brawn left. They like it under the new manager.

People have this idea that Paddy Lowe is this quite guy who does not want to be in the lime light. Just look at his 20 year younger wife, maybe that will change many people perspective on Paddy. Paddy loves power, he wants to control everything even more so then Ross Brawn. McLaren people know how much of an control and power freak he is. Toto Wolff knew that giving him more power would create tensions between other senior staff. Thats why Toto let Paddy leave and he said:
Success in Formula One is not about single individuals but about the strength in depth and technical capability of an organisation
Paddy wants total control and that is what he is getting at Williams control, power and recognition. James Allison and the rest of the senior team will be a better fit. Allison trust his engineers en give team control. Marchionne did not like that style of management. He wanted Allison to take the reigns and put his ideas into the minds of his subordinates. He wanted to give them freedom and let his engineers come up with new solutions at his guidance. That style of management is precisely what Toto was looking for. The seniors at Mercedes who are all older then Allison want to get on with their job and have great input or direction ques from the TD. Not a TD like Lowe who is hovering on their every move.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by dren » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:02 pm

Interesting. I like that style of management and it's how I manage my department. Put the right people in the right places and hold them accountable, but remain hands off for the most part. I have always liked Alison. I wish him the best at Mercedes.
Honda!

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Morteza » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:21 am

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:03 am

kooleracer wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:Well well well....

Look like i was mostly right and slightly wrong at the same time about James replacing Paddy.

It sorta hints why Paddy left too. Wolff does not like to share too much power.. lets see if he allows James to give the final say on the radio to the drivers.
Wolff does not like to share too much power
Where do you get that idea from?
1. He shared an office with Paddy.
2. He did not intrude on the technical side with Paddy.
3. He did not even talked on the radio trackside.

Come on man, if there ever was a F1 manager who knows how to delegate it is Wolff. In most of his interviews he always talks about the organization and the strength of the team. People in Mercedes feel really happy en free under his leadership more so than even under Ross. Ross was more of a one man show, he did all of it, track related, fia related and everything Brackley related. Toto is the opposite of Ross when it comes to sharing power. His big thing is accountability, he gives you the freedom but expects results. He is more of a people manager and he shares the spoils, that is why Aldo, Willis, Elliot and Cowell are still their after Brawn left. They like it under the new manager.

People have this idea that Paddy Lowe is this quite guy who does not want to be in the lime light. Just look at his 20 year younger wife, maybe that will change many people perspective on Paddy. Paddy loves power, he wants to control everything even more so then Ross Brawn. McLaren people know how much of an control and power freak he is. Toto Wolff knew that giving him more power would create tensions between other senior staff. Thats why Toto let Paddy leave and he said:
Success in Formula One is not about single individuals but about the strength in depth and technical capability of an organisation
Paddy wants total control and that is what he is getting at Williams control, power and recognition. James Allison and the rest of the senior team will be a better fit. Allison trust his engineers en give team control. Marchionne did not like that style of management. He wanted Allison to take the reigns and put his ideas into the minds of his subordinates. He wanted to give them freedom and let his engineers come up with new solutions at his guidance. That style of management is precisely what Toto was looking for. The seniors at Mercedes who are all older then Allison want to get on with their job and have great input or direction ques from the TD. Not a TD like Lowe who is hovering on their every move.
Fair and reasonable view. But i am innterested in your thoughts of James getting a lower position than paddy? ( i predicted he would not get executive director technical )
"Raindrops .. drop top!"

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by kooleracer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:29 am

Lowe and Allison joined Mercedes in completely different circumstances.

Lowe: When Paddy was brought to Mercedes, you could look at it as Lewis moving from McLaren to Mercedes. In order to lure such a big name to a team that hasn't preformed yet you have to sweeten the deal. Lowe was acquired when Mercedes didn't have won a championship yet and McLaren was still a real topteam. Paddy was and still is an highly rated engineer so, in order to convince him to choose for Mercedes his new could should be an upgrade. Paddy was already TD at McLaren and he was looking for an improvement simmerler to his move now to Williams where is has become an shareholder. He knew that Ross would eventually leave and the he would in charge of the entire race team. Not like McLaren where he was one of the 3 or 4 directors at the time. Mercedes needed a big name and they got a big name to replace Ross. Mercedes got what they were looking for a partner for Wolff and Paddy got up the F1 ladder. He got the label Executive director technical and was effectively leading the technical part of the race team.


Allison: James Allison doesn't have any leverage at the moment. First, Mercedes has won 3 WDC and 3 WCC in row. Second, he got fired/quit Ferrari. Allison really only got 1 option Mercedes . Peter Prodromou is running the technical side at McLaren now. Morris and Goss report to him, after being in to shadow of Newey. Peter would only return is he would be leading at McLaren. McLaren needed him so, Morris and Goss took a back seat which was justified because of their results. Red Bull is no option, Newey is the guy and Allison is not looking to be an apprentice for Newey after already being creating world championship cars with Ferrari and Renault. Paddy was already going to Williams and Paddy is going to be de facto leader at Williams. Renault is not an option, Bob Bell just returned with the promise of running the team and leading the transition like he did at Mercedes. Therefore Mercedes, was his only option in 2017. Allison did not get the title of executive because he was not in the position to ask that and Mercedes had the upper hand in the negotiations. But, don't fixate on the title executive he will have the same responsibilities as Paddy, he just won't get the same pay and the same amount of power to make decisions. Wolff will be the only executive left, but don't be surprised if Toto drops the executive part and just become business/commercial director and Allison becomes technical director. As a matter of fact Wolff is now the Head of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport. James Allison want's to establish him self now as an capable TD who can win championships. He wasn't TD at Renault or Ferrari when they won champions. So, I am sure the wants that accolade behind his name.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by mclaren111 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:06 am

kooleracer:
Peter Prodromou is running the technical side at McLaren now. Morris and Goss report to him, after being in to shadow of Newey. Peter would only return is he would be leading at McLaren. McLaren needed him so, Morris and Goss took a back seat which was justified because of their results.
Source ??

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by kooleracer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:41 pm

mclaren111 wrote:
kooleracer:
Peter Prodromou is running the technical side at McLaren now. Morris and Goss report to him, after being in to shadow of Newey. Peter would only return is he would be leading at McLaren. McLaren needed him so, Morris and Goss took a back seat which was justified because of their results.
Source ??
The McLaren MP4-30 has been designed under the leadership of new chief engineer Peter Prodromou, who joined from Red Bull in September last year.
ESPN
He joins us at an auspicious time; we’ve spent much of 2014 working to develop and organise our design department, and his arrival neatly coincides with the conclusion of that restructuring.
McLaren press release when he joined.

Morris and Goss are at his disposal, would not be suprised if they also leave soon. Peter is in charge he designs the car. McLaren's conclusion was that Goss and Morris were leading them nowhere and they reorganised. Also don't think PP would have returned to McLaren to be headed by Morris or Goss. He was second in command at Red Bull.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Cocles » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:35 pm

I agree with Kool. Looks like money was also a deciding factor. This article provides some insight:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opini ... ffers-lowe

Silly of Paddy to believe he'd be equal in standing with Toto, when Toto owns 30% of the team and is also VP of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport.

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by shady » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:30 pm

Thats exactly the point, he wanted a piece of the pie and Toto and Lauda wanted none of it. Paddy after 3WCC wanted a seat at the ownership table. This is why they never really had any contract talks, nothing less than ownership would have kept him. So he goes to Williams and becomes an stakeholder. Toto pushed out Brawn with the Lowe acquisition, so letting him go must have been difficult but the cost was too high for him. Williams will be better because of it in the longer term..

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by iotar__ » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:02 pm

Cocles wrote:I agree with Kool. Looks like money was also a deciding factor. This article provides some insight:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opini ... ffers-lowe

Silly of Paddy to believe he'd be equal in standing with Toto, when Toto owns 30% of the team and is also VP of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport.
- Why silly? He was hired as someone more than Technical Director but of course could never be a proper team principal, nothing new. Ego and money - fairly normal motives, especially after winning a lot.
- Might be similar story at Williams with Williams jr although the chances of actually running the team without the title are higher there.

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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by GPR-A » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:12 am

Link -> Hamilton calls for an end to "unfair" intra-team data sharing
[color=#0000FF]By: Andrew van Leeuwen[/color] wrote:Lewis Hamilton says he would prefer that teammates didn’t share data, claiming that drivers should have to “find it all themselves” when it comes to on-track performance.

Speaking in an interview with Mercedes sponsor UBS, Hamilton explained that, while he has no problem with engineers sharing data relating to car performance, teammates shouldn’t be able to replicate lines and braking points based purely on data.

“I go out, do my laps, do all my homework, [and] the other guy can see everything,” said Hamilton.

“I have asked my team. I don’t want to see my teammate’s. I don’t feel it’s fair that he brings his A-game and I should be able to study his A-game on a computer.

“For example, when we’re driving we’re picking out braking points, bumps, tyre rubber marks on the track, all these different things to help get you through the corner quickest. And the other driver probably naturally may be able to do more or less than you are.

“But because of this data they can just copy you. ‘Oh, he’s braking five metres later there, I’ll go out and I’ll try braking five metres later’. So that’s what I really dislike, because it enables them to get closer."
Hamilton added that having access to a driver’s data makes it too easy for new drivers to come into the sport and be straight on the pace.

“I think it should be ‘you hired me because I am the best, because I’ve studied, because I’ve won every class that I’ve been in, I’ve not missed one in terms of winning’,” he said. “And you’re hiring whoever the next person is because they’ve hopefully won some things along the way as well and you’re hiring them for their ultimate skill all round.

“They should be able to go out there on their own and find it all themselves, without you.

“You could take a young kid from Formula 3, have them just go on a simulator and drive every single day and try and get to my lines. And eventually they’d probably get to my lines.

“He should have to discover that himself. You’ve got to find the limit yourself, that’s the whole challenge of being a racing driver.

“When I get in this new car, it’s seeing what the limit of it is. And if I can’t do it on my own, then I’m not good enough and I don’t deserve to be there. And there are some drivers that don’t.”
I think it's time they stop sharing data between team mates and make each one earn their own bread. Not just the data in the garage, but providing information like this, from Brazil GP.
OK Daniel for info Verstappen found good grip on the outside of turn three
OK so a reminder outside of turn three grip looks good. Verstappen just drove around Bottas around the outside of turn three. Verstappen is the next car behind you.