2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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Zynerji
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Zynerji » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:50 pm

So, they are admitting that they will not equally enforce this rule?

Case by case legality checks is awful!

DiogoBrand
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by DiogoBrand » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:18 am

One unrelated question about this year's suspension:
Why does this year's cars, even with the higher aero dependance, don't have as stiff suspension as they did back in the early 2000's? Is it because of the higuer weight, better mechanical grip or just less sensitive aero?

DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by DaveW » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:27 am

DiogoBrand wrote:Why does this year's cars, even with the higher aero dependance, don't have as stiff suspension as they did back in the early 2000's? Is it because of the higuer weight, better mechanical grip or just less sensitive aero?
Assuming you are correct (& I think you are), then my guess would be tyres, with probably a better understanding of the mechanical options.

Years ago, when testing was free and tyres were "optimised", nominated teams used to spend days executing tyre tests. During these tests the vehicle & its suspension was fixed, & tyre companies threw tyres at the vehicle, took the "best" away & developed new constructions & compounds for the next test. Over time, the tyres were developed to suit the vehicle & its set-up. Bridgestone's suited Ferrari, specifically, Michelin's tended to suit the rest, whilst Pirelli was left in the wilderness.

When Moseley organised the exit of Michelin, all teams (with the exception of Ferrari and Mclaren) had great difficulty making the bespoke Bridgestone's work. Ferrari because they were familiar with them, & McLaren because the tyres happened to suit their vehicle & its set-up... Ferrari called foul, which ultimately cost McLaren.

When Bridgestone decided to withdraw from F1 (for financial reasons I believe) Pirelli became the sole supplier. The current tyre issues are fatigue & life, leading to pressure and set-up restrictions and conservative driving styles.

Teams have tried to improve life (particularly) with fancy gizmos and mechanical set-up which, arguably, has led to a better understanding of tyre issues.

So...Higher weight, No. Better mechanical grip, perhaps. Improved tyre life, Yes. Less sensitive aero, perhaps - I leave others to comment on that.

Gothrek
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Gothrek » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:57 pm

Is there any news on which teams had to adopt their suspension because of the TD?

FrukostScones
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by FrukostScones » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:59 pm

Gothrek wrote:Is there any news on which teams had to adopt their suspension because of the TD?
I think RB is still a bit in doubt. and maybe they had set up problems the last two days because they tried "watertight" suspension settings.
Thirdly: No one knows whether a competitor, or more than one opponent in Melbourne, denounces the innovative suspension system of Red Bull Racing at the racing commissaries. While Niki Lauda, ​​Chairman of the Supervisory Board of the Mercedes-Benz team, is "one hundred percent sure" that the silver is all legal and within the clarification made by the FIA, Marko admits: "This is very complex. You have to look at the individual components. We are, of course, within the regulations. "

But apparently, the FIA ​​has demanded the reversal of evidence against Red Bull Racing. Marko continued: "We must now prove that everything is compliant. And not the FIA ​​that we have some nonconformity in the car. There will always be grazes. The FIA ​​has a handful of technicians who face an army of specialists in every big team. "
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DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by DaveW » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:44 am

Ben Anderson (Autosport) in the magazine article (March 16 2017) entitled "Is the threat to Mercedes real?" included the following statement

"It probably is optimistic to expect Ferrari to be right in the fight with Mercedes, even if (as some suspect) the Silver Arrows has been forced to alter the suspension under the FIA's new diktat, and is still working on how to get the best from the revised car."

The statement is not present in the website article (March 10 2017) published under the same heading, whatever that means.

p.s. Simulation usually confirms what is known about a car. It seldom provides information about what is not known....

Jolle
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Jolle » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:15 pm

DiogoBrand wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:18 am
One unrelated question about this year's suspension:
Why does this year's cars, even with the higher aero dependance, don't have as stiff suspension as they did back in the early 2000's? Is it because of the higuer weight, better mechanical grip or just less sensitive aero?
I presume mostly aero. If you look at what rakes most of the teams' floors can handle and still have an aero seal around the edge, the suspension can be less stiff to get better grip while in the early 00 and before, having the ridehight as low as possible was key to get maximum downforce from the floor.

DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by DaveW » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:22 am

Jolle wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:15 pm
I presume mostly aero...
You joke, of course. Just don't tell Charlie Whiting - Apologies..

lio007
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by lio007 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:45 am


DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by DaveW » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:27 am

Thanks to Lio007 for the link to Autosports report. Personally, I would like an explanation of Charlie Whiting's statement reported as:
"If a suspension system behaves asymmetrically, then there is not a very justifiable reason for behaving like that - if a suspension system goes down at one speed and comes back at a different speed."

Since the "speed" of a suspension depends on, amongst other things, changes in applied load, what characteristics in the suspension itself are deemed to make it "behave asymmetrically", please? Any ideas?

Mr.G
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Mr.G » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:44 am

DaveW wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:27 am
Thanks to Lio007 for the link to Autosports report. Personally, I would like an explanation of Charlie Whiting's statement reported as:
"If a suspension system behaves asymmetrically, then there is not a very justifiable reason for behaving like that - if a suspension system goes down at one speed and comes back at a different speed."

Since the "speed" of a suspension depends on, amongst other things, changes in applied load, what characteristics in the suspension itself are deemed to make it "behave asymmetrically", please? Any ideas?
I understand that in this way - you reach speed X and the suspension lowers by Y mm, then you lower your speed but the suspension stays still compressed to the Y mm value and until you reach even lower speed... Or something similar...
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Jersey Tom
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Jersey Tom » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:17 pm

By that verbiage you can't have asymmetric damping characteristics or more or less compression compared to rebound? How silly.

Seems to be getting a bit ridiculous to imply your suspension can't intentionally affect your aero performance in any way. What - not allowed to try to control your desired ride heights? That's kind of a big fundamental piece of the puzzle.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

Santozini
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Santozini » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:50 pm

Any word from RB or Merc on the change so far?

turbof1
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by turbof1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:05 pm

Image

Image

Image

I feel sick just looking at what Mercedes uses as suspension parts in the spacer between tub and crash structure. I can relatively understand what's going on at the Red Bull, but I can't comprehense anything concerning Mercedes' suspension.

CBeck113
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by CBeck113 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:26 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:05 pm
https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/M ... 060586.jpg

//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017032 ... 63cbbf.jpg

https://img.f1today.eu/x/full/photos/58 ... 8a0196.jpg

I feel sick just looking at what Mercedes uses as suspension parts in the spacer between tub and crash structure. I can relatively understand what's going on at the Red Bull, but I can't comprehense anything concerning Mercedes' suspension.
They aren't that different, but Mercedes leaned their design backwards and covered everything with a cpu of some sort, maybe a canbus unit for their sensors up front. They also moved the brake fluid reservoirs further forward. I wonder what they have in the bulkhead to necessitate this design - it seems to move all the suspension components upward, which usually wouldn't be a good thing.
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