2017 F1 general testing thread

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
dans79
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by dans79 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:08 pm

giantfan10 wrote: I asked a specific question that you are yet to answer.
This is f1T, I assumed the answer was readily apparent, but if you need a specific example, look at bullet point 1 and do the opposite.

dren
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by dren » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:33 pm

Honda and Renault showed their reliability hands. Everyone else did a bunch of laps on a track.
Honda!

edu2703
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by edu2703 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:14 pm

I read a lot of analyzes on the pre-season tests. Half says Mercedes is ahead of Ferrari and the other half says Ferrari is ahead of Mercedes. But most say there is a 'Top 3' and 'the rest'.

But then I got curious. If they say there is a 'Top 3' and 'the rest' then there must be a big difference between the worst team of Top 3 and the best team of 'rest'. But none of these analyzes have told us how much that difference is. Assuming that Red Bull is the worst team of Top 3 and Williams the best team of rest, how much is the difference between Red Bull and Williams?

Some analysis did not say there is a 'Top 3' and 'the rest'. They said Red Bull and Williams are very close to each other and the teams behind Williams are not far behind.

Only one analysis put Williams ahead of Red Bull and proved that by using lap times from race simulations. But the author made an observation: Red Bull has a better ability to improve the car throughout the season than Williams. Who will be better in Melbourne: Williams or Red Bull? This will depend on the updates that the two teams will bring, but you can not create too many expectations with these updates. It's necessary to know first what will be updated, if it will improve and how much it will improve the car performance. The author also made remarks about the lack of reliability of Renault engine, which may be a problem for Red Bull.

But one thing all the analyzes agree: McLaren and Sauber will be the worst teams this year.

skoop
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by skoop » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:24 pm

edu2703 wrote:I read a lot of analyzes on the pre-season tests. Half says Mercedes is ahead of Ferrari and the other half says Ferrari is ahead of Mercedes. But most say there is a 'Top 3' and 'the rest'.

But then I got curious. If they say there is a 'Top 3' and 'the rest' then there must be a big difference between the worst team of Top 3 and the best team of 'rest'. But none of these analyzes have told us how much that difference is. Assuming that Red Bull is the worst team of Top 3 and Williams the best team of rest, how much is the difference between Red Bull and Williams?

Some analysis did not say there is a 'Top 3' and 'the rest'. They said Red Bull and Williams are very close to each other and the teams behind Williams are not far behind.

Only one analysis put Williams ahead of Red Bull and proved that by using lap times from race simulations. But the author made an observation: Red Bull has a better ability to improve the car throughout the season than Williams. Who will be better in Melbourne: Williams or Red Bull? This will depend on the updates that the two teams will bring, but you can not create too many expectations with these updates. It's necessary to know first what will be updated, if it will improve and how much it will improve the car performance. The author also made remarks about the lack of reliability of Renault engine, which may be a problem for Red Bull.

But one thing all the analyzes agree: McLaren and Sauber will be the worst teams this year.
I think I read somewhere that Force India believes the gap to the top 3 is about 1.0 - 1.5 seconds

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by giantfan10 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:39 pm

Marko joins the debate lol from Motorsports.com
Ferrari sandbagging a worry, admits Red Bull
"Helmut Marko said his team was slightly concerned about the pace of Ferrari and that the Italian team had been confident enough to employ such gamesmanship in testing."
"A lot has been kept in the dark. But if the race [Melbourne] would have taken place with the same kind of temperatures we had [in testing] then Ferrari would be in front, for sure."

On Mercedes: "Barcelona has shown that Bottas cannot go at the speed of Hamilton," he said. "Should Mercedes have the same kind of technical dominance, there will not be the same 1-2 formation again.
"Then, others will be able to place themselves between the Mercedes drivers."

On Red Bull : "We had a few nasty failures. Actually, it was the same one each time," he explained. "Therefore we weren't able to make the amount of progress we had aimed for."

Marble
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by Marble » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:33 pm

A good pre season analysis, using Google Translate :

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -irfane%2F

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by giantfan10 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:01 pm

Marble wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:33 pm
A good pre season analysis, using Google Translate :

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -irfane%2F
most thorough and insightful analysis so far this preseason =D>

CLKGTR
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by CLKGTR » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:25 pm

Sorry if it was already mentioned - Barcelona testing top speed 2016 vs 2017 comparison

https://maxf1.net/en/who-was-fastest-on ... -straight/

AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by AMG.Tzan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:37 pm

CLKGTR wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:25 pm
Sorry if it was already mentioned - Barcelona testing top speed 2016 vs 2017 comparison

https://maxf1.net/en/who-was-fastest-on ... -straight/
Wow...all that talk about drag and top speeds falling!! At least they are at the same level as last year...except for that 346 km/h from Sauber last year, all other top speeds are the same! Especially Mercedes...338 last year...338 this year! That's nice because they won't lose any performance through top speeds compared to last year and also we will still see big top speeds!! :D

Juzh
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by Juzh » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 am

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:37 pm
CLKGTR wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:25 pm
Sorry if it was already mentioned - Barcelona testing top speed 2016 vs 2017 comparison

https://maxf1.net/en/who-was-fastest-on ... -straight/
Wow...all that talk about drag and top speeds falling!! At least they are at the same level as last year...except for that 346 km/h from Sauber last year, all other top speeds are the same! Especially Mercedes...338 last year...338 this year! That's nice because they won't lose any performance through top speeds compared to last year and also we will still see big top speeds!! :D
Around a million variables could affect top speed numbers in testing, and as such are as useless as they can be.

Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by Big Mangalhit » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:34 am

Juzh wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 am
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:37 pm
CLKGTR wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:25 pm
Sorry if it was already mentioned - Barcelona testing top speed 2016 vs 2017 comparison

https://maxf1.net/en/who-was-fastest-on ... -straight/
Wow...all that talk about drag and top speeds falling!! At least they are at the same level as last year...except for that 346 km/h from Sauber last year, all other top speeds are the same! Especially Mercedes...338 last year...338 this year! That's nice because they won't lose any performance through top speeds compared to last year and also we will still see big top speeds!! :D
Around a million variables could affect top speed numbers in testing, and as such are as useless as they can be.
Actually except drag, power, adherence, exit speed of the corner and mass I don't see any others variables. Is there?

Also because the analysis takes two speed trap points (between each there shouldn't be any tyre adherence problem) and all cars should be around the same mass I guess it will have only two variables, Power and drag.

Juzh
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by Juzh » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:34 pm

Big Mangalhit wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:34 am
Juzh wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 am
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:37 pm

Wow...all that talk about drag and top speeds falling!! At least they are at the same level as last year...except for that 346 km/h from Sauber last year, all other top speeds are the same! Especially Mercedes...338 last year...338 this year! That's nice because they won't lose any performance through top speeds compared to last year and also we will still see big top speeds!! :D
Around a million variables could affect top speed numbers in testing, and as such are as useless as they can be.
Actually except drag, power, adherence, exit speed of the corner and mass I don't see any others variables. Is there?

Also because the analysis takes two speed trap points (between each there shouldn't be any tyre adherence problem) and all cars should be around the same mass I guess it will have only two variables, Power and drag.
Renault team was 20 kmh faster in testing last year, than they were in qualifying. Obviously they were whoring a massive slipstream or using sub-optimal ers deployment (too much on the main straight), but some people even on this forum were already saying they have at least matched merc if not surpassed them in power output :roll:

Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by Big Mangalhit » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:45 pm

Juzh wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:34 pm
Big Mangalhit wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:34 am
Juzh wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 am

Around a million variables could affect top speed numbers in testing, and as such are as useless as they can be.
Actually except drag, power, adherence, exit speed of the corner and mass I don't see any others variables. Is there?

Also because the analysis takes two speed trap points (between each there shouldn't be any tyre adherence problem) and all cars should be around the same mass I guess it will have only two variables, Power and drag.
Renault team was 20 kmh faster in testing last year, than they were in qualifying. Obviously they were whoring a massive slipstream or using sub-optimal ers deployment (too much on the main straight), but some people even on this forum were already saying they have at least matched merc if not surpassed them in power output :roll:
Yeah you're absolutely right. Although those two things fall under drag and power they real don't paint the full picture. I was just wondering more in a theoretical perspective cause there is no doubt that top speed is probably one of the least useful data we get on testing. Although it could be so much more useful if we get more details of it (DRS, slipstream, deployment, several points) but then again it is like that with all testing data.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:42 am

Bigger diffusers mean more efficient down-force in the mix. Also exit speeds are high and Barca is a downforce track. Let's wait till Canada to see.
"Raindrops .. drop top!"

Logie
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

Post by Logie » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:30 pm

I am excited for the first race, we pretty much know Merc will be solid and it looks like Ferrari have closed the gap although its unsure if they are ahead, matching or close behind. Biggest thing imo is how Merc bring updates, its pretty much every race where Ferrari comes in waves. Get close, fall back, close up a bit and then fall back over a few more races but it seems we should see some more racing from the front 3 and a closer middle pack.

Have to see how long Sauber can keep up, if McL move forward.

Williams look good, but i feel their decision making lets them down in races and they dont progress well through the season but i guess no supprise with their budget.



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