Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

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ThumbsUp
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by ThumbsUp » Thu May 18, 2017 2:35 pm

I only wish for tires that don't create that much marbles, so they can drive more lines in the corners near the end of the race

zac510
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by zac510 » Thu May 18, 2017 4:23 pm

Even if they are perfect now, after another 6-7 races who is to say they won't have to deal with an extra 10% of downforce, teams that have sharpened up their suspension and tyre models or any other tracks that have been resurfaced or any races that are unseasonably cold or hot. It's a massively moving target, creating the perfect tyre, so I'm always happy to cut Pirelli some slack when they don't get it perfect every single race.
Last edited by zac510 on Thu May 18, 2017 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BanMeToo
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by BanMeToo » Thu May 18, 2017 5:16 pm

Yea they've done a pretty good job this year afaic

Edax
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by Edax » Thu May 18, 2017 7:13 pm

I miss the tyre war. But realistically it doesn't work anymore in the current hypercompetitive environment. Either one of the manufacturers takes it too far and creates a safety risk or one manufacturer gets an advantage and the whole field switches. Happens in all prime series.

Tyres are OK now for me. I do find the tyre rule annoying. It is designed to promote on track overtaking, but a side effect is that it prevents real agressive pit stop strategies. For instance a three stopper using softs only, or a one stopper on mediums only.

Due to the tire rules, the strategy always seems to be a bit akward to me.

marmer
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by marmer » Thu May 18, 2017 8:29 pm

Edax wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 7:13 pm
I miss the tyre war. But realistically it doesn't work anymore in the current hypercompetitive environment. Either one of the manufacturers takes it too far and creates a safety risk or one manufacturer gets an advantage and the whole field switches. Happens in all prime series.

Tyres are OK now for me. I do find the tyre rule annoying. It is designed to promote on track overtaking, but a side effect is that it prevents real agressive pit stop strategies. For instance a three stopper using softs only, or a one stopper on mediums only.

Due to the tire rules, the strategy always seems to be a bit akward to me.
i agree with the awkwardness of the strategy

i always wondered why they don't have gaps in tyre performance Monaco will be ultra super and soft why not ultra super and medium give someone the chance of trying a different strat

gridwalker
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by gridwalker » Thu May 18, 2017 8:55 pm

If we go any softer, Pirelli should try to find some of the compound detailed in this article : http://speedbirdconcorde.wixsite.com/sp ... Concorde-2
After about a year of the Soviet Union’s efforts to steal Concorde designs, the design teams were able to comprehend the intensity of the industrial espionage. The design teams fired back with a humorous touch. A false tire formula, which actually had the consistency of bubble gum-- had been channeled to the KGB.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

skoop
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by skoop » Thu May 18, 2017 9:51 pm

i was wondering how long it would take until someone complains about the tires again

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu May 18, 2017 10:35 pm

I like the racing so far. The tyres allow the drivers to fight. I am loving the soft and the Medium.. But as one user pointed out maybe they should be called Hard and Medium! My gripe is with the ultrasofts lasting too long on some tracks. A Softer tyre is needed. Yes you could call that tyre the new super soft ending the range at the new hards (which would be the current mediuams) and all it a day. But no matter how you turn it I think a "hyper-soft" compound is still needed for Monaco, Russia, Austria, Abudahbi and some other tracks
"Raindrops .. drop top!"

Edax
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by Edax » Fri May 19, 2017 12:19 am

Maybe the rule should simply be: use at least one tyre of the harder compound.

That perhaps can level the playing field a bit. Now you see that many of the bottom 10 cars want to use a 1 stop strategy, but they just cannot get it to work since stretching out the soft compound gives them too much of a pace disadvantage. Usually it ends miserably, with the car limping along on worn out softs. With two harder tires they have a better chance to make the strategy work.

And having different strategies IMO always makes the races more exciting. It only takes a safety car to completely mess the field up.

More exciting than having two cars on different compounds. Because I don't believe the compound difference really attributes to overtaking, tire age seems to be dominant.

WaikeCU
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by WaikeCU » Fri May 19, 2017 11:23 am

Didn't we complain at the beginning of the Pirelli era about tires who fall off the cliff quickly? Tires that don't last long, heavy marbling and such. Now, they've made tougher rubber, we start to complain that they don't degrade well enough? I don't think we actually need a massive change tbh, but maybe a qualifying tire that last maybe 3 laps or so?
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turbof1
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by turbof1 » Fri May 19, 2017 11:55 am

WaikeCU wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 11:23 am
Didn't we complain at the beginning of the Pirelli era about tires who fall off the cliff quickly? Tires that don't last long, heavy marbling and such. Now, they've made tougher rubber, we start to complain that they don't degrade well enough? I don't think we actually need a massive change tbh, but maybe a qualifying tire that last maybe 3 laps or so?
The complaint is not about tyre degradation, but about tyre wear. Yes there is a viable difference between it.

The issue also is that the medium tyre and especially the hard tyre are, well, too hard. To the point they don't heat up properly and you get chunks being ripped off, making the hard tyre ironically less durable than the soft tyre. In essence these tyres actually suffer from degradation (but instead that this happens at the so called cliff, this happens right from the go). All 3 types of soft tyres are actually quite good, with a good heating pattern and a lineair wear function. And no, nobody wants a return to situations like 2013 Barcelona where you had to make 4 pitstops with the hardest selection of tyres. But, nowadays you can do almost half the race on the soft in Barcelona and one stops are actually a doable and viable strategy. So we should agree that the pendulum has swung a bit too much to the other side.

holeindalip
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by holeindalip » Sun May 21, 2017 12:23 am

I've been thinking about this for awhile...


How about a single compound with a wide operating window but still have the us,ss,s,m.
Us would be a full slick ss would have two grooves, soft would have 4 grooves, and medium would have 6 grooves.something that would give a nice 1.5-2 sec difference between them and all the cars would be able to be within the proper operatinf window.keep the same bring three tires to a race and mandated 2 compound use on race day..... Thoughts on this one??

zac510
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by zac510 » Sun May 21, 2017 9:11 am

As much as I think it boring as hell when people make rule proposals in threads..

There are 20 different circuits with different tarmac aggregates, different average cornering speeds and 20+ different temperatures and climates (between FP and Race), 10 different cars with each with different setups and 20 different drivers who work the tyres in different ways, all working over a race in which the car weight changes by 100kg and the track rubbers in, across strategies in different teams that will use tyres for different stint lengths and on cars that will evolve in levels of downforce from race 1 to race 20. I'm sure there are even more variables than that once you get into the chemical properties of the tyre.
If you think that any company can just make a tyre that is 1.5-2 second difference over every one of those variables across a whole season then I think you are a bit naive.

Even in racing series, 2 or 4 wheel, with single-make and even single-compound tyres, the tyres are extremely important factor in many races. You simply can't get away from that, unless you remove the tyres from racing altogether! Accept that managing tyres is as important for a racing driver as any other.

(oh, I forgot to mention minimal pre-season on-track testing allowed, teams that don't tell the truth about simulated vehicle loads and teams' and fans' resistance to changing the tyre compounds mid-season).

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun May 21, 2017 6:35 pm

holeindalip wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 12:23 am
I've been thinking about this for awhile...


How about a single compound with a wide operating window but still have the us,ss,s,m.
Us would be a full slick ss would have two grooves, soft would have 4 grooves, and medium would have 6 grooves.something that would give a nice 1.5-2 sec difference between them and all the cars would be able to be within the proper operatinf window.keep the same bring three tires to a race and mandated 2 compound use on race day..... Thoughts on this one??
Interesting. You would have to rename those tyres though. I would call them slowest ultra short life, Slower Super Short life, Slow Short life and not so Slow medium life.

I am no tyre expert but logically those tyres you described would all have the same softness and your "ultra soft" would actually have the longest service life out of those tyres.
"Raindrops .. drop top!"

holeindalip
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Re: Design the Hyper-Soft tyre!

Post by holeindalip » Tue May 23, 2017 12:46 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 6:35 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 12:23 am
I've been thinking about this for awhile...


How about a single compound with a wide operating window but still have the us,ss,s,m.
Us would be a full slick ss would have two grooves, soft would have 4 grooves, and medium would have 6 grooves.something that would give a nice 1.5-2 sec difference between them and all the cars would be able to be within the proper operatinf window.keep the same bring three tires to a race and mandated 2 compound use on race day..... Thoughts on this one??
Interesting. You would have to rename those tyres though. I would call them slowest ultra short life, Slower Super Short life, Slow Short life and not so Slow medium life.

I am no tyre expert but logically those tyres you described would all have the same softness and your "ultra soft" would actually have the longest service life out of those tyres.
Would tire wear scale progressively with the grooved tires? Being from the states I didn't begin following f1 until the end of '12, how did the grooved bridgestones fair?



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