Honda Power Unit

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
MrPotatoHead
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by MrPotatoHead » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:08 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:40 pm
MrPotatoHead wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:36 am
From what i can tell Honda have a full AVL track simulation dyno system.
But it is a rigid test stand type system not a full chassis simulation.

If they are still having vibration issues the chances of finding the solution on the dyno without a full chassis simulation is pretty slim.
But it's important to remember that a 90 degree V6 with straight crank pins will always be an odd fire engine and will inherently be vibration prone.
Very wrong. They have the full chassis dynamoteter. In this 2015! Article you can see they even use it for super formula...

http://www.somersf1.co.uk/2015/09/mclar ... d.html?m=1

They have all sorts of dyno types and brands it seems..

This photo was years ago but they surely have upgraded since then.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AHntp4Y7Wrs/V ... ura_09.jpg
That picture does not show what you think it does.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Tommy Cookers » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:02 am

[quote=wuzak][quote=godlameroso]
The restrictions are in theory to keep costs down, but in practice make catching up to the rule writers more difficult[/quote]

You mean Gilles Simon and the FIA?
Or are you suggesting Mercedes wrote the rules? Because Ferrari and Renault were involved in the rules defining process, and Gilles Simon wrote the rules for the FIA.[/quote]


Mercedes and Renault each own a bit of the other's company
ie they are not two independent interests
and both are in some part owned by public money

Mercedes could have in effect 'sold Renault the dummy' (or vice-versa of course)
anyway there was not 3 independent engine producer interests

someone had this engine under their bench, and the rules were written around it

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by etusch » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:18 am

There must be two or Three different spec manufacturer can choose like LMP1 in leMan. Rule specify a max and min power. until max power manufacturer allowed to develop. This power rules is good fia 's 0.3 sec engine range promise.

FW17
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by FW17 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:15 am

Image


That is no dynamometer

No way can they fire the engine with no exhaust connected, air inlet or a cooling fans

Can engineers at a computer be sitting with no ear plugs when the car is fired?

That is a rolling road to study some chassis behavior, no chance of doing engine testing on it.

crf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by crf1 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:00 am

Original source http://world.honda.com/RandD/hrd_sakura/#photo

... "CHASIS TESTING"

Dimi
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Dimi » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:25 am


ZakB
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by ZakB » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:30 am

Hasegawa confirmed that the new spec will come in Baku, although this shouldn't be seen as spec 3.0.

alexa
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by alexa » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:49 pm

I think it's just drivebility and reliability related update.

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm

As long as the gap is less than 15kmh down the straight, and can actually race instead of fuel save, while praying it holds together, they can call it spec turnip for all I care.

I don't mind them starting from the back, this was going to be their toughest race so far.

We already know spec 3 is around Singapore/Suzuka/COTA.
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wuzak
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by wuzak » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:39 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm
We already know spec 3 is around Singapore/Suzuka/COTA.
What year?

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:27 pm

wuzak wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:39 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm
We already know spec 3 is around Singapore/Suzuka/COTA.
What year?
This year.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by ronanharris09 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:12 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm
We already know spec 3 is around Singapore/Suzuka/COTA.
What makes 2.1, 2.5, and 3.0 different actually ? These numbers should mean lots of minor updates.
And, why do they need to choose one between 2.1 & 2.5 ?
When it comes to 💻 science 💫, what I much about it 💢 is analyzing the 📉 📊 👌.

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:12 pm

Apparently new heads, (big maybe)crankshaft, pistons, turbine, fuel delivery system, camshafts, etc for spec 3.0(hopefully sorts out the vibration problems, although it already got a lot better through new MGU-H, and mapping). The rest is just tweaks to the intake, exhaust, fuel delivery and mapping. I'm guessing fuel injector upgrade is possible in the mean time, there's always scope to improve fuel delivery.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by etusch » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:23 pm

Hasegawa says that when they improved ice efficiency there is much loss on mgu-h efficiency. I remember this was subject of this thread at earlier pages. And something more which is mentioned here by Wazari san. 2019 Williams Honda championchip.

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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:35 pm

That's where the compromise comes in, of course better combustion is the only way to reduce any compromise you may have to make, so it's more important to focus there, than attempting to compromise between piston and turbine energy.

It may require you to rethink your turbine once the combustion improves, and then you're back to square one, and you wasted time developing two turbines instead of one.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee



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