F1 simulators

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marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

F1 simulators

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From what I have seen most simulators have the front half of the car minus wheels and screens al around. The car has some ability to mimic the feel of driving.
Do any simulators use vr headsets visually they don't seem to use the highest graphics possible from shots I have seen. The F1 game looks better than what I have seen
Do teams make copies of tracks themselves or get outside help one would feel track maps would be the same when done with a scanner like forza and the F1 game

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Santozini
5
Joined: 27 Feb 2017, 10:47

Re: F1 simulators

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marmer wrote:
22 Jun 2017, 11:05
From what I have seen most simulators have the front half of the car minus wheels and screens al around. The car has some ability to mimic the feel of driving.
Do any simulators use vr headsets visually they don't seem to use the highest graphics possible from shots I have seen. The F1 game looks better than what I have seen
Do teams make copies of tracks themselves or get outside help one would feel track maps would be the same when done with a scanner like forza and the F1 game

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
I always wondered too, but this seems to be quite a secretive topic, as most things in F1 :D

However I managed to find this: http://www.f1simulatormaniac.com/red-bu ... f1-racing/

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DiogoBrand
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Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

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No team uses Forza or Codemasters' F1 on their simulators since they're more simcade than simulator. I've seen some use Assetto Corsa, some using modded versions of rFactor. Maybe some use iRacing but I don't remember seeing it anywhere. As for the circuits I don't know if they create them themselves or get a mod somewhere. Some are already laserscanned on Assetto Corsa and iRacing, but I don't know what they do for the others. Codemasters has all the circuits but I believe none are laserscanned.
Edit: Now that I think of it, it wouldn't make sense to use iRacing since it doesn't support mods and the closest we have to current cars is the MP4-30

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: F1 simulators

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From what I've heard a few teams are using R-Factor but just for the graphics. The vehicle model would be either a commercially available real-time model or something they've developed themselves (i.e. in Modelica or Simulink).
Not the engineer at Force India

marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: F1 simulators

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I have played abit of assetto corsa. years ago was quite boring but the cars did handle more like road cars (never got to fast cars game never gripped me)

i didn't actually know Codemasters didn't scan the tracks they do a good job of recreating them by eye

Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

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I would imagine some, if not most, use rFactor Pro for the graphics engine only. As Tim alluded to, you'd develop your own physics model in Dymola or similar.

I suppose it's possible but I'd be surprised if teams used VR headsets. The issue with that is if the driver wanted to make an adjustment on the steering wheel, you wouldn't be able to see what you're doing.

With regards to graphics, it's entirely possible or likely that the entertainment industry is ahead on that front. But if you're a professional simulation engineer for a professional race team and you had to choose between spending the majority of your time on graphics development or an accurate physics model - which would you choose?
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

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I think latency also has something to do with it too. Rendering speed takes priority over realism. Any delays in the graphics not only bring on motion sickness but also affect the drivers feedback. Especially if it is badly synchronised with the motion platform.

Image quality, perhaps surprisingly, isn't really important in simulators driven by professional drivers.
Not the engineer at Force India

nmoleiro
8
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 00:50

F1 simulators

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marmer wrote:I have played abit of assetto corsa. years ago was quite boring but the cars did handle more like road cars (never got to fast cars game never gripped me)

i didn't actually know Codemasters didn't scan the tracks they do a good job of recreating them by eye


Maybe you should try assetto corsa again, it has very good graphics and a very good car model also.
It has two Ferrari f1 recent cars from 2013, and 2015. i know there's nothing like the seat in your pants you feel when you're driving a real car. But IMO now assetto corsa is as good as it gets.

Edit: you must of course use a ffb wheel to have more fun and feel the cars.

marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: F1 simulators

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no money or space for that unfortunately 360 pad on pc for me so not the best setup

ESPImperium
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Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Contact:

Re: F1 simulators

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The most expensive one in use is the Mercedes one, it takes up a 4,000sqft area and i have seen pics of it where the driver goes into a pod that is controlled by a X/Y axis motor. Only problem with this this one is that it is noisy and consumes a lot of power. It is only is in use for short amount of times, i do know they also have a static one in the simulator wing of Brackley as well. Both the Mercedes ones are based on the same design as the Toyota LMP1 simulator, that is based off a Airbus A320 simulator actuator in order to give better sensations to the drivers. Those are the best ones in Motorsport.

The next best are the McLaren, Renault (Designed and built by McLaren Applied Technologies), Ferrari and Red Bull/Toro Rosso simulators. The McLaren ones are around £20m without software as you have to supply that, McLaren update theirs weekly after every race. The Ferrari one is built by another company, however it was brought into accuracy by De La Rosa who has done more simulator driving than most, however his time sim driving has been getting caught and passed by many drivers recently as many teams have a driver in their sim when each session is ongoing on track, those drivers are often doing 9+ hours a day on Fridays of GP weekends, some teams often have two drivers now to split the work. As for Red Bull, their new simulator was installed in December of last year, their old one is in Faenza now for Toro Rosso to use with one of last years tubs onboard for each simulator, Red Bull made a simulator only tub i also am led to believe. This cost Red Bull £40m and £17m for Toro Rosso as they needed to get a new building to house their sim now.

As for Graphics, as per the tech industry, they are upgraded each and every year, i believe they have 2 1080Ti powering the 4K Projectors with a Zeon based CPU powering the simulator, the data is fed into a second machine for analysis similar to a GP car. Its a massive machine and data centre, it takes about 20-25 mins to load up each circuit model as Red Bull went and laser scanned each track they could and replicated the ones they couldn't via other methods. Red Bull have spent a wedge getting their sims up to standards that not even the most popular tech guys on youtube (Linus/Jayz/etc...) would be able to comprehend. Williams new sim was built via part of a £35m gift to them last year from the Stroll family, (£20m for the simulator/£15m for the test programme in a 2 year old Williams, Haas use the old Manor simulator that has been upgraded by Ferrari and outside contractors that are good at this technology.

VR is something that the teams won't use for a long time as the tech is still in its infancy for their levels, consumers with Forza its there, but not for F1 teams.

Sauber are the only team without a simulator. They passed on taking Caterhams old one as it was going for £700k when it was auctioned off, it went to a UK based motorsport team that isn't in F1.

Most teams sims are running more or less every day these days, most teams are running a young driver or a test/development driver in there and or a older driver that isn't competing any longer in F1. I hear Liuzzi does work for STR these days, and Alex Lynn still does work for Williams whenever his schedule allows. Teams need drivers for these things, and theres plenty around these days who are willing to do a days work for £1,000 a day or up to £100,000 a year. Simulators are expensive and sometimes don't get the coronation correct, as Hamilton has voiced many times, but many drivers like Rosberg said they were great for simulating certain failures.

Mercedes Simulator:
Image

zac510
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

Re: F1 simulators

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That looks amazing, I'd definitely get Crammond's GP2 with the mod package running on that.

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

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ESPImperium wrote:
24 Jun 2017, 22:41
Mercedes Simulator:
http://media.emercedesbenz.com.s3.amazo ... 40_001.jpg
As far as I know, that's not their F1 simulator. That's used by their road car department in Sindelfingen.
Not the engineer at Force India

OO7
OO7
171
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: F1 simulators

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zac510 wrote:
25 Jun 2017, 06:19
That looks amazing, I'd definitely get Crammond's GP2 with the mod package running on that.
:lol:

Greg Locock
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Joined: 30 Jun 2012, 00:48

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Yeah that MB simulator could only manage 1g sustained , hardly seems worth the effort. Hey Lewis just drive round the track at 25%, that'll be useful.

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

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You don't need anywhere near 100% scaling on the motion cueing for it to be useful. You'd be surprised at what you can get away with as long as you get the lateral and yaw movements well phased and use a properly trained driver.

I doubt any of the F1 simulators are sized to do more than a couple of G peak and even less acceleration in a sustained way.
Not the engineer at Force India

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