Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
I expect closer 2018. If Honda can improve as planned and if they can catch Renault before the end of this season as Hasegawa san had said,, I am sure RB will start trying to find way of switching Honda in season. It's exciting situation now. but we have to wait to see what Honda will do. I believe they'll be good.
Starting 2018 with Honda engines is a risk for Red Bull. But ... I'm sure if they see real progress, Honda and Red Bull would pay Renault to break the contract. And use Honda engines mid-season.etusch wrote: ↑12 Sep 2017, 21:25I expect closer 2018. If Honda can improve as planned and if they can catch Renault before the end of this season as Hasegawa san had said,, I am sure RB will start trying to find way of switching Honda in season. It's exciting situation now. but we have to wait to see what Honda will do. I believe they'll be good.
Compare what; 2017 renault motor with 2017 honda in 17chassis? They dont even know weight, cog and other basic things to make a proper simulation.harjan wrote: ↑12 Sep 2017, 19:10Guys. McLaren have all the data and decide to drop Honda for Renault- we can safely assume McLaren is more than capable to compare two engines.. So no need for people in here to downplay Renaults advantage. If you think McLaren is walking away from 100M and a works deal because of a few bhp difference, then you're plain wrong. The difference is huge and McLaren no longer thinks Honda can close it within the foreseeable future
This is very strange comparation. Maybe passat has more quality on the passenger compartment but mechanical quality is on Honda's side. Accord is one of most reliable cars in the world.
And this is the level we reachedringo wrote: ↑12 Sep 2017, 23:07Honda F1 engine is undesirable. Torro Rosso probably wants Honda's money more than it wants Honda's engine.
I don't see redbull being happy about getting this engine for torro rosso at all. Torro Rosso is acting independently and throwing spaghetti on the wall by taking the 100million and seeing if it will stick next year.
To how i see it:
Renault is the winner in all of this. Sainz in Renault is a great asset. The amount of points he will rake in >>>>> points palmer will rake in.
Torro Rosso loses Sainz, they think the 100 million can make them a great car for 2019. I doubt they are even thinking about benefit of using Honda at all.
Mclaren gets Renault engines. This improves points potential tenfold. They have been hardened and forged into great chassis makers as a result of the hardships with Honda. They are confident in making a podium fighting car once they have the additional horsepower which will be realized by renault. Also they may be privy to the improvements Renault will be promisinf for 2018.
Biggest losers: Torro Rosso for losing Sainz and gaining Honda. Honda in itself is a loss. 100 million as shown by mclaren only benefits the team when the use it to invest in building technology and building up their organization for when they kick Honda to the curb the following year. Torro Rosso may crawl back to Renault in 2019 or 2021.
This is a case of completely rewriting history, both Mclaren and Honda were talking about a slow start to 2015 but hoping to go for podiums after summer and wins by the end of the year. It wasn't till a few races into the season they said wins not till 2016, but they hope to be pushing for podiums end of 2015. It was several more races forward after one of their first upgrades they started talking about 2015(not the first 7 years) as a test season.Redragon wrote: ↑12 Sep 2017, 14:39No I am more realisitic, this project had a plan of 10 years to become Worldchampions. It could have been on the first 3 years or at the end of the period eg 7th year. Changing to Renault is not gonna improve the situation on long term as they will loose exclusivity on engine and become a costumer team and the money from Honda. When Horner and Redbull are shaking their hands and welcome the swap I would rethink my choices as Mclaren team.
The previous 3 months of so has been Sainz looking to move from RBR and RBR saying there isn't a spot in the senior team for him. He was off soon enough anyway. He's a decent driver who makes quite a few large mistakes and isn't close to Ricciardo or Verstappen level, ultimately there is only so long they'd stick with a guy who wouldn't make it into their senior team. In other words don't read that much into it, they were off anyway. RBR is offloading a lot of cost of their second team they've already been rumoured to be looking to sell and they pushed off a driver who wanted out in part of the deal to save millions on TR's budget.
For a drunk F1 fan you speak a lot of sense. Good post!drunkf1fan wrote: ↑13 Sep 2017, 00:13This is a case of completely rewriting history, both Mclaren and Honda were talking about a slow start to 2015 but hoping to go for podiums after summer and wins by the end of the year. It wasn't till a few races into the season they said wins not till 2016, but they hope to be pushing for podiums end of 2015. It was several more races forward after one of their first upgrades they started talking about 2015(not the first 7 years) as a test season.Redragon wrote: ↑12 Sep 2017, 14:39No I am more realisitic, this project had a plan of 10 years to become Worldchampions. It could have been on the first 3 years or at the end of the period eg 7th year. Changing to Renault is not gonna improve the situation on long term as they will loose exclusivity on engine and become a costumer team and the money from Honda. When Horner and Redbull are shaking their hands and welcome the swap I would rethink my choices as Mclaren team.
Honda was in for wins in the first year and hoping to compete for titles from the second year, saying otherwise now is ridiculous. It was a 10 year deal length, nothing more or less, it has zero implications for how long they thought it would become to be world champions.
The previous 3 months of so has been Sainz looking to move from RBR and RBR saying there isn't a spot in the senior team for him. He was off soon enough anyway. He's a decent driver who makes quite a few large mistakes and isn't close to Ricciardo or Verstappen level, ultimately there is only so long they'd stick with a guy who wouldn't make it into their senior team. In other words don't read that much into it, they were off anyway. RBR is offloading a lot of cost of their second team they've already been rumoured to be looking to sell and they pushed off a driver who wanted out in part of the deal to save millions on TR's budget.
The biggest mistake that has happened in the past decade of F1(probably several) was rushing in with an unknown engine and giving up an engine that was long in development and rumoured to be excellent. At least in 2013 just how good the Mercedes engine was an unknown, though 18 months and rushing a Honda for 2015 was known to be a bad idea at the time. What you're suggesting is that RBR might give up a significantly better engine for a engine with a far worse track record, it would be even dafter than what Mclaren did in 2013.
No top team with any wish to compete will take the Honda engine before it proves itself, and proving itself would mean finishing a season in 7 or less engines AND showing similar to Renault performance. Until Honda achieve that there is no reason to risk switching. The extreme earliest I think any bigger team would consider switching back to Honda (basically Mclaren or RBR, or even Williams/FI), would be 2019 and that is only if 2018 went extremely well. Personally I doubt on Honda's ability to deliver an engine reliable nor fast enough in 2018 for anyone else to take that risk for 2019.
RBR are currently not happy with Renault because of their reliability, the fact that people think they'll switch to Honda with their track record is astonishing to me.
The engine won't be as important in 2021 with all the standardized parts, so McLaren just needs to make sure that they have a couple of good years ahead of them. The relationship is simply done, it's not all about performance and money. McLaren simply don't believe anything Honda says, so that's isn't a real base to continue is it? I actually hope Honda gets their act together, because the more competition the better, but McLaren should just be focused at the short term currently. Why do guys have so much confidence that Honda will get it together? We haven't seen any signs of that. Don't forget that Honda already knew in December (10 months ago) that they were in real trouble.Redragon wrote: ↑12 Sep 2017, 14:39No I am more realisitic, this project had a plan of 10 years to become Worldchampions. It could have been on the first 3 years or at the end of the period eg 7th year. Changing to Renault is not gonna improve the situation on long term as they will loose exclusivity on engine and become a costumer team and the money from Honda. When Horner and Redbull are shaking their hands and welcome the swap I would rethink my choices as Mclaren team.ZakB wrote: ↑12 Sep 2017, 12:06Well at least they performed at the top and Red Bull was in 2016 faster than the Ferrari, sounds a whole lot better than fighting with Haas and Sauber. Red Bull also admitted that they haven't had the greatest winter, so stop acting like they are god. According to you Renault isn't a solution, but you do expect a company that has been failing for three years to beat Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault in the coming years.
Not true. Mclaren can make a new belhousing to fit the renault engine. Where you dont want to go is changing the susepension area. That is asking for trouble. When all the engines have the same crank centre line and the same bolt pattern it is easier to change the part of the bell housing where the exhaust pipe comes out than to change to a new gearbox.
