Aah... Makes sense. Gills Simon! That is why he was shown the door.Wazari wrote: ↑18 Sep 2017, 23:40Since I am getting asked many questions, many of them the same, again I will try and answer here. Please keep in mind I am no longer associated with HRD directly. Yes my nephew is still there but I really don't speak to him about F1 these days. What I say is a mixture of what I know to be fact and also speculation on my part. I have tried to distinguish the two and I apologize if I have not done a good job of that. Again, I appreciate this forum as it has been an avenue to vent, a way to practice my English writing skills or lack thereof, and speak on a topic which I like very much in a completely new way.
With regards to my definition of "Spec 4", it was one of three mono-cylinder models out of several models that was built into a V-6 ICE and tested prior to winter testing.....
Yep the Mercedes soot has a totally different colour from the others. I think the fumes from the oil are combustion stablizers. That gas has something to do with the radiation scattering path length... it sort of tempers the flame... am I correct here? Or total rubbish? hahaOil burning.....not so much oil burning itself but additives to oil. I think it's interesting that the FIA added Sections 7.8 and 7.9 to the technical regulations for next year. I think I have mentioned this before but if you are in the pits, the exhaust from all the Mercedes PU's have a distinct smell. The rest are all similar. Also if you stand behind the cars, the exhaust from the Mercedes team cars also have a haze to the exhaust unlike any other. You can't see it on television but you can definitely see it in person. So something is different with what is being burned in their combustion chamber. "Secret sauce?"
Don't leave yet Wazari. We need you more than ever in these coming months. Not to mention winter testing!So anyway I think I won't be writing for a while. Believe what you want, if you don't like what I write, I understand but please keep your insults to a minimum. Thanks.
Don't leave yet Wazari. We need you more than ever in these coming months. Not to mention winter testing!So anyway I think I won't be writing for a while. Believe what you want, if you don't like what I write, I understand but please keep your insults to a minimum. Thanks.
I prefer to think of it as 1+1=2 (instead of someone just telling us the answer is 2) but you raise a fair point, it is pieced together by reasoning and deducing how various pieces of information relate. Isn't that part of the 'fun'?bigblue wrote: ↑19 Sep 2017, 18:25Sorry, I'm not sure I've seen anything concrete to show this is the case ? Quite a lot of forum 1 + 1 = 3, kinda posts - not having a go at you but this stuff gets speculated on by someone, repeated a few times and then sinks into the collective forum consciousness as a fact (or near fact). I don't think there are any reasonably substantiated claims about what Illien has done with respect to Honda so far, or did I miss something ?
I agree with you that oil consumption of Mercedes is not about increasing power with combustion of oil,it gains power with reducing friction.J.A.W. wrote: ↑19 Sep 2017, 07:42Lubricant also "...helps with with ring sealing."MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑19 Sep 2017, 06:50There is always negative pressure in the crankcase from the Dry Sump system.
This helps with piston ring sealing.
Further complicating things.
& introduction to the rings may be from above ( by inlet) &/or below ( via a minimalist 'oil ring' - to also reduce friction).
As for "oil burning" - well, internal consumption - which does not spread/spray liquid lubricant out of the ICE, really is..
I thought that this trick about using oil to gain performance was only used in qualifying.amho wrote: ↑21 Sep 2017, 18:13I agree with you that oil consumption of Mercedes is not about increasing power with combustion of oil,it gains power with reducing friction.J.A.W. wrote: ↑19 Sep 2017, 07:42Lubricant also "...helps with with ring sealing."MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑19 Sep 2017, 06:50There is always negative pressure in the crankcase from the Dry Sump system.
This helps with piston ring sealing.
Further complicating things.
& introduction to the rings may be from above ( by inlet) &/or below ( via a minimalist 'oil ring' - to also reduce friction).
As for "oil burning" - well, internal consumption - which does not spread/spray liquid lubricant out of the ICE, really is..
I think when the engine is at off throttle status(during braking or cornering), a venturi valve opens and uses blow off gases to create vacuum and lead plenty of oil into the cylinder to decrease friction of compression rings therefore there is less friction less engine braking and therefore more momentum in crank shaft for mgu-k to store energy.
here I have tried to show that combustion of oil can't be a source of power with these estimations:
- allowed level of oil burn: 1.2 Lt/100 km
- allowed level of fuel consumption: 100 kg/hour
and if assume density of racing oil equal to 0.85 kg/liter
considering Monza race duration of : 1:15:32.3 =1.258 hour
then fuel consumption in monza race is 100x1.258=125.8 kg
considering monza race distance of 306.720 then oil consumption during the race is:
1.2x0.85x3.0672= 3.128 kg (oil consumption)
and if we assume that 100% of that oil is burned and have equal heating value as original fuel (which is impossible) then total available fuel (oil+ orignall fuel) is equal to 128.92 kg.
then if we assume that Ice produces 800 bhp with 125.8 kg fuel( 100kg/hour) limitation then the power with oil will be about 819 bhp. so in the best cast and with impossible assumption burning of oil only adds 19 bhp...
It is very good idea to vacuum oil into cylinder during off throttle periods of engine. But I think they're still burning that oil. It can help lubrication but best income is keeping mgu-h turning without consuming electric from storage with gas of burned oil. And that oil may be produced producing very much gas.amho wrote: ↑
I agree with you that oil consumption of Mercedes is not about increasing power with combustion of oil,it gains power with reducing friction.
I think when the engine is at off throttle status(during braking or cornering), a venturi valve opens and uses blow off gases to create vacuum and lead plenty of oil into the cylinder to decrease friction of compression rings therefore there is less friction less engine braking and therefore more momentum in crank shaft for mgu-k to store energy.
here I have tried to show that combustion of oil can't be a source of power with these estimations:
- allowed level of oil burn: 1.2 Lt/100 km
- allowed level of fuel consumption: 100 kg/hour
and if assume density of racing oil equal to 0.85 kg/liter
considering Monza race duration of : 1:15:32.3 =1.258 hour
then fuel consumption in monza race is 100x1.258=125.8 kg
considering monza race distance of 306.720 then oil consumption during the race is:
1.2x0.85x3.0672= 3.128 kg (oil consumption)
and if we assume that 100% of that oil is burned and have equal heating value as original fuel (which is impossible) then total available fuel (oil+ orignall fuel) is equal to 128.92 kg.
then if we assume that Ice produces 800 bhp with 125.8 kg fuel( 100kg/hour) limitation then the power with oil will be about 819 bhp. so in the best cast and with impossible assumption burning of oil only adds 19 bhp...
126 kg is for 1.258 hour of monza is equal to fuel rate of 100kg/hour.