2021 Engine thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
ringo
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by ringo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:13 am

If f1 wants to be road relevant and entertaining while looking ahead..

Hydrogen cell fuel.
Direct injection v10 naturally aspirated.
Variable valve timing
Kers
Standardized mguh construction. If mguh is used.
For Sure!!

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Jolle » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:01 am

ringo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:13 am
If f1 wants to be road relevant and entertaining while looking ahead..

Hydrogen cell fuel.
Direct injection v10 naturally aspirated.
Variable valve timing
Kers
Standardized mguh construction. If mguh is used.
Uhm, what is road relevant about a NA V10?

Cold Fussion
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Cold Fussion » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:51 am

Jolle wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:01 am
Uhm, what is road relevant about a NA V10?
ringo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:13 am
If f1 wants to be road relevant and entertaining while looking ahead..

AJI
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by AJI » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:33 am

So, we've only got until the 31st before the 2021 engine formula is decided (kind of). Last chance for fanciful ideas...

Inline 5, MGU-H, 100kg/h, no fuel limit (but no re-fuelling), current K, 20kg battery, unlimited ERS deployment and harvesting, 1 PU per race weekend.

BAM!

Mudflap
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Mudflap » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:12 pm

wuzak wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:35 am
carisi2k wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:17 am
Here is my proposal. 100kg of fuel for the race and the manufacturer can choose any engine configuration they desire. Inline, V or boxer 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinder engines of whatever size they choose. Multi valve or pushrod.
My counter-proposal is 100kg/h fuel flow rate, no race fuel limits, any engine configuration desired - Inline, V, W, radial or boxer 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12 cylinder, multi-rotor Wankel rotary, gas turbine, steam engine, swing piston, 4 stroke, 2 stroke, 5 stroke, of any capacity they like. Can be supercharged or turbocharged, or both, or non-supercharged.
This is what I'd like to see more than anything however it creates the potential for some teams to get it 'very right' and others to get it 'very wrong'.

I think that gaps between engines will be huge and it will take a lot longer to coverge.

As an engineer I think this sounds amazing, as an F1 enthusiast I think it would be shite.
Si vis pacem volve velox

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:18 pm

Small gas turbine driving a generator, electric motors/generators in all four hubs. Unlimited battery capacity/discharge rate. Noise, smell, speed. Pure F1.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

ojlopez
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by ojlopez » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:44 pm

Keep current displacement turbo formula but with any configuration you like: inline, V, 6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinder. Its up to you. Remove fuel flow limit and encourage higher revving engines. Keep the MGU-K, unlimited harvesting and deploying. Keep the fuel allowance limited. 1 Engine per race weekend.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:00 pm

The closer we get to the dicision of 2021 and the more it looks like no extreme changes are going to happen (V6 Turbo with Hybrid tech), the bigger and more fantastic the suggestions here are becoming.

3jawchuck
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by 3jawchuck » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:00 pm
The closer we get to the dicision of 2021 and the more it looks like no extreme changes are going to happen (V6 Turbo with Hybrid tech), the bigger and more fantastic the suggestions here are becoming.
I guess it is grasping at straws and desperation for something that will let engineers stretch their skills, at least in my case. Well, soon we can all be let down :D

AJI
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by AJI » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:29 pm

3jawchuck wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:00 pm
The closer we get to the dicision of 2021 and the more it looks like no extreme changes are going to happen (V6 Turbo with Hybrid tech), the bigger and more fantastic the suggestions here are becoming.
I guess it is grasping at straws and desperation for something that will let engineers stretch their skills, at least in my case. Well, soon we can all be let down :D
I'm going to miss this thread when they announce on the 31st that they've decided to keep the current PU configuration until 2025

Shrieker
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Location: Istanbul, TR

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Shrieker » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:58 pm

Please for the love of god at least make them V8s with increased fuel flow limit and maximum allowed fuel amount. Make them rev. The engines sound neither exciting nor technological as is.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
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Vortex Motio
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Vortex Motio » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:42 am

Any engine formula that is both lighter and less expensive to develop would be a great foundation for F1 going forward.



NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:39 am

Keep the MGU-H and make it standarized. How about using Porsches 919 LMP1 setup? And independant turbine+mgu-h and conventional turbo(s). Make the turbine+mgu-h standard and let the manufacturers use a custom turbocharger.

The amount of energy recovered with a rear axle MGU-K only, must be to little to justify the weight and complexity of the system itself. That’s the reason to use an MGU-H.

krisfx
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by krisfx » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:42 am

3jawchuck wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:00 pm
The closer we get to the dicision of 2021 and the more it looks like no extreme changes are going to happen (V6 Turbo with Hybrid tech), the bigger and more fantastic the suggestions here are becoming.
I guess it is grasping at straws and desperation for something that will let engineers stretch their skills, at least in my case. Well, soon we can all be let down :D
The current engine regs definitely let engineers stretch their skills...

ME4ME
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by ME4ME » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:48 pm

Ex-Ferrari staff gives Aston Martin "capability" for F1 project
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/asto ... ri-965986/

Anyone got any opinion on the viability of an Aston Martin F1 engine project? Even in cooperation with Cosworth, I'm doubtful they will be able to develop a competitive engine, and here is why:

Being competitive is not solely about absolute performance, it is also about timing. Reaching a performance milestone is only advantageous when reached at the same time or earlier than the competition.

When the 2021 engine regulations are decided on October 31, 2017, the big manufacturer teams like Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault will have a team on stand by to instantly start developing a concept suitable for that set of regulations. Actually, it's very likely that they already have researched and defined several concepts suitable for the most probable set of regulations. After the regulations are published, these manufacturers will quickly transition towards putting their entire budget of resources into the new project.

Aston Martin & Co will on the other hand have to decided first if they want to participate, and define who their partners will be and put that into contract. They will likely start the project with a skeleton team compared to their emidiate rivals and wont be at full strenght, engineering-wise until probably late 2018. Aston Martin & Co will not only be at an overall resource deficit, they will also lose crucial time in the early stages of the project.

Mercedes will know all too well that starting early and having a mature engine package from day one is crucial. Given the highly advanced state of their unit, they will be able to re-direct massive amounts of resources into the new project early.

The time between regulation publication to first race is relativly long, but Aston will need to be quick in making a decision to invest. Wait, and it will be too late.